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Tue, 9 Sep 2025 18:06:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dovecot-director2.suse.de ([2a07:de40:b281:106:10:150:64:167]) by imap1.dmz-prg2.suse.org with ESMTPSA id uFuEO8BswGiZNQAAD6G6ig (envelope-from ); Tue, 09 Sep 2025 18:06:56 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2025 20:06:56 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: workflows@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Link trailers revisited (was Re: [GIT PULL] io_uring fix for 6.17-rc5) Content-Language: en-US To: Linus Torvalds , Jens Axboe Cc: Konstantin Ryabitsev , Jakub Kicinski , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , dan.j.williams@intel.com, Caleb Sander Mateos , io-uring , workflows@vger.kernel.org References: <9ef87524-d15c-4b2c-9f86-00417dad9c48@kernel.dk> <20250905-sparkling-stalwart-galago-8a87e0@lemur> <68bf3854f101b_4224d100d7@dwillia2-mobl4.notmuch> <5922560.DvuYhMxLoT@rafael.j.wysocki> <20250909071818.15507ee6@kernel.org> <92dc8570-84a2-4015-9c7a-6e7da784869a@kernel.dk> <20250909-green-oriole-of-speed-85cd6d@lemur> <497c9c10-3309-49b9-8d4f-ff0bc34df4e5@suse.cz> From: Vlastimil Babka Autocrypt: addr=vbabka@suse.cz; keydata= xsFNBFZdmxYBEADsw/SiUSjB0dM+vSh95UkgcHjzEVBlby/Fg+g42O7LAEkCYXi/vvq31JTB KxRWDHX0R2tgpFDXHnzZcQywawu8eSq0LxzxFNYMvtB7sV1pxYwej2qx9B75qW2plBs+7+YB 87tMFA+u+L4Z5xAzIimfLD5EKC56kJ1CsXlM8S/LHcmdD9Ctkn3trYDNnat0eoAcfPIP2OZ+ 9oe9IF/R28zmh0ifLXyJQQz5ofdj4bPf8ecEW0rhcqHfTD8k4yK0xxt3xW+6Exqp9n9bydiy tcSAw/TahjW6yrA+6JhSBv1v2tIm+itQc073zjSX8OFL51qQVzRFr7H2UQG33lw2QrvHRXqD Ot7ViKam7v0Ho9wEWiQOOZlHItOOXFphWb2yq3nzrKe45oWoSgkxKb97MVsQ+q2SYjJRBBH4 8qKhphADYxkIP6yut/eaj9ImvRUZZRi0DTc8xfnvHGTjKbJzC2xpFcY0DQbZzuwsIZ8OPJCc LM4S7mT25NE5kUTG/TKQCk922vRdGVMoLA7dIQrgXnRXtyT61sg8PG4wcfOnuWf8577aXP1x 6mzw3/jh3F+oSBHb/GcLC7mvWreJifUL2gEdssGfXhGWBo6zLS3qhgtwjay0Jl+kza1lo+Cv BB2T79D4WGdDuVa4eOrQ02TxqGN7G0Biz5ZLRSFzQSQwLn8fbwARAQABzSBWbGFzdGltaWwg QmFia2EgPHZiYWJrYUBzdXNlLmN6PsLBlAQTAQoAPgIbAwULCQgHAwUVCgkICwUWAgMBAAIe AQIXgBYhBKlA1DSZLC6OmRA9UCJPp+fMgqZkBQJnyBr8BQka0IFQAAoJECJPp+fMgqZkqmMQ AIbGN95ptUMUvo6aAdhxaOCHXp1DfIBuIOK/zpx8ylY4pOwu3GRe4dQ8u4XS9gaZ96Gj4bC+ jwWcSmn+TjtKW3rH1dRKopvC07tSJIGGVyw7ieV/5cbFffA8NL0ILowzVg8w1ipnz1VTkWDr 2zcfslxJsJ6vhXw5/npcY0ldeC1E8f6UUoa4eyoskd70vO0wOAoGd02ZkJoox3F5ODM0kjHu Y97VLOa3GG66lh+ZEelVZEujHfKceCw9G3PMvEzyLFbXvSOigZQMdKzQ8D/OChwqig8wFBmV QCPS4yDdmZP3oeDHRjJ9jvMUKoYODiNKsl2F+xXwyRM2qoKRqFlhCn4usVd1+wmv9iLV8nPs 2Db1ZIa49fJet3Sk3PN4bV1rAPuWvtbuTBN39Q/6MgkLTYHb84HyFKw14Rqe5YorrBLbF3rl M51Dpf6Egu1yTJDHCTEwePWug4XI11FT8lK0LNnHNpbhTCYRjX73iWOnFraJNcURld1jL1nV r/LRD+/e2gNtSTPK0Qkon6HcOBZnxRoqtazTU6YQRmGlT0v+rukj/cn5sToYibWLn+RoV1CE Qj6tApOiHBkpEsCzHGu+iDQ1WT0Idtdynst738f/uCeCMkdRu4WMZjteQaqvARFwCy3P/jpK uvzMtves5HvZw33ZwOtMCgbpce00DaET4y/UzsBNBFsZNTUBCACfQfpSsWJZyi+SHoRdVyX5 J6rI7okc4+b571a7RXD5UhS9dlVRVVAtrU9ANSLqPTQKGVxHrqD39XSw8hxK61pw8p90pg4G /N3iuWEvyt+t0SxDDkClnGsDyRhlUyEWYFEoBrrCizbmahOUwqkJbNMfzj5Y7n7OIJOxNRkB IBOjPdF26dMP69BwePQao1M8Acrrex9sAHYjQGyVmReRjVEtv9iG4DoTsnIR3amKVk6si4Ea X/mrapJqSCcBUVYUFH8M7bsm4CSxier5ofy8jTEa/CfvkqpKThTMCQPNZKY7hke5qEq1CBk2 wxhX48ZrJEFf1v3NuV3OimgsF2odzieNABEBAAHCwXwEGAEKACYCGwwWIQSpQNQ0mSwujpkQ PVAiT6fnzIKmZAUCZ8gcVAUJFhTonwAKCRAiT6fnzIKmZLY8D/9uo3Ut9yi2YCuASWxr7QQZ lJCViArjymbxYB5NdOeC50/0gnhK4pgdHlE2MdwF6o34x7TPFGpjNFvycZqccSQPJ/gibwNA zx3q9vJT4Vw+YbiyS53iSBLXMweeVV1Jd9IjAoL+EqB0cbxoFXvnjkvP1foiiF5r73jCd4PR rD+GoX5BZ7AZmFYmuJYBm28STM2NA6LhT0X+2su16f/HtummENKcMwom0hNu3MBNPUOrujtW khQrWcJNAAsy4yMoJ2Lw51T/5X5Hc7jQ9da9fyqu+phqlVtn70qpPvgWy4HRhr25fCAEXZDp xG4RNmTm+pqorHOqhBkI7wA7P/nyPo7ZEc3L+ZkQ37u0nlOyrjbNUniPGxPxv1imVq8IyycG AN5FaFxtiELK22gvudghLJaDiRBhn8/AhXc642/Z/yIpizE2xG4KU4AXzb6C+o7LX/WmmsWP Ly6jamSg6tvrdo4/e87lUedEqCtrp2o1xpn5zongf6cQkaLZKQcBQnPmgHO5OG8+50u88D9I rywqgzTUhHFKKF6/9L/lYtrNcHU8Z6Y4Ju/MLUiNYkmtrGIMnkjKCiRqlRrZE/v5YFHbayRD dJKXobXTtCBYpLJM4ZYRpGZXne/FAtWNe4KbNJJqxMvrTOrnIatPj8NhBVI0RSJRsbilh6TE m6M14QORSWTLRg== In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.30 / 50.00]; BAYES_HAM(-3.00)[100.00%]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.20)[-0.999]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FUZZY_RATELIMITED(0.00)[rspamd.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[9]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_SIGNED(0.00)[suse.cz:s=susede2_rsa,suse.cz:s=susede2_ed25519]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; URIBL_BLOCKED(0.00)[kernel.dk:email,imap1.dmz-prg2.suse.org:helo,msgid.link:url,suse.cz:mid]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DBL_BLOCKED_OPENRESOLVER(0.00)[suse.cz:mid] X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Score: -4.30 On 9/9/25 18:40, Linus Torvalds wrote: > On Tue, 9 Sept 2025 at 07:50, Jens Axboe wrote: >> >> I think we all know the answer to that one - it would've been EXACTLY >> the same outcome. Not to put words in Linus' mouth, but it's not the >> name of the tag that he finds repulsive, it's the very fact that a link >> is there and it isn't useful _to him_. > > It's not that it isn't "useful to me". It's that it HURTS, and it's > entirely redundant. > > It literally wastes my time. Yes, I have the option to ignore them, > but then I ignore potentially *good* links. > > Rafael asked what the difference between "Fixes:" and "Cc: stable" is > - it's exactly the fact that those do NOT waste human time, and they > were NOT automated garbage. > > The rules for those are that they have been added *thoughtfully*: you > don't add 'stable' with automation without even thinking about it, do > you? > > And if you did, THAT WOULD BE WRONG TOO. > > Wouldn't you agree? I fully agree. Now the sad part of this example is that if one conciously decides that the bug fixed is not critical enough according to the documented stable rules, and doesn't add Cc: stable, there's a good chance the AUTOSEL automation will pick it anyway, these days with a help of LLM. > Dammit, is it really so hard to understand this issue? Automated noise > is bad noise. And when it has a human cost, it needs to go away. > > I'm not saying that you can't link to the original email. But you need > to STOP THE MINDLESS AUTOMATION WHEN IT HURTS. > > So add the link, by all means - but only add it when it is relevant > and gives real information. And THINK about it, don't have it in some > mindless script. I'd hope that distinguishing the automated links from conscious one (i.e. using the patch.msgid.link vs lore domains) would be enough to make everyone happy without hurting. But fine. > Because if it's in a mindless script, then dammit, the lore "search" > function is objectively better after-the-fact. Really. Using the lore > search gives the original email *and* more. > > The same, btw, goes for my merge messages. No, I'm not going to add > some idiotic "Link" to the original pull request email. Not only don't > I fetch those from lore to begin with, you can literally search for > them. > > Look here, for the latest merge I did of your tree: e9eaca6bf69d. Later in the thread patch-id is mentioned. I think it was mentioned in the past threads that due to small context changes due to e.g. base that the submitter used and the maintainer used to apply, and even diff algorithm not being set in stone, they can't be made fully reliable?