From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mgamail.intel.com (mgamail.intel.com [198.175.65.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A2112749E0; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 16:08:54 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.175.65.10 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1762790937; cv=none; b=GsmdPNthqA45gCafH5deMTS8x1S2M5aWq1cYTewAmAsAkI7csPHv3e1za4i/7jcUgSTVAXrnJonEIrfJhs2RxOTbyG8ucaKus0z7MVQWealYPnYx5FkTH37VILxPG2d368IofS39qZhcwOuPEojE1LGirxcGJe5ex14eKUcl9Y4= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1762790937; c=relaxed/simple; bh=4C7TH7poRMtEERFdquY9WWauFPWs9MSj9o+5nbNDiKM=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=LfSdhc9Uyf1OwjifcaRtt62WgayqULow1qYHXsEFW4xur/Ow+7kjlKE9aSIW7JRY/u+jtpoDPuS6ybpqzZ+PSApKq3dh/F0z35esM/+lNHPrfYrOFX8V9KkW9ZYUcrWRSAUaffYUcOhSbbEns62Vs71jbMNGQe0VxI1XvahqESE= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=intel.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=intel.com; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=intel.com header.i=@intel.com header.b=luBf63YL; arc=none smtp.client-ip=198.175.65.10 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=intel.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=intel.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=intel.com header.i=@intel.com header.b="luBf63YL" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=intel.com; i=@intel.com; q=dns/txt; s=Intel; t=1762790936; x=1794326936; h=message-id:date:mime-version:subject:to:cc:references: from:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4C7TH7poRMtEERFdquY9WWauFPWs9MSj9o+5nbNDiKM=; b=luBf63YLW7zsjBYdTCTJBnrYuMDBbEaKf3JSeY7U52Al4pmOmlwYEEGZ Cponpjq+GntTtWnPgVWjmsENjRWYZsbRmKEhrnc5j6FGu6q6TXDPIgxfn mMc3Xeqk9C16WsY8pceNJ2Vn/vyMEInW9cqdNrBfspRwAuVdPTH/mnuUn yTNtAOrhZflLIVlGgnD7R3mb12S4rk+uVn/7m28OzcgqdbrUUmUI9EVxd +VsvHiN/4ZgsJwShijOTZFFX+gYPT64lMJ9/Rf37aV6XPTE5zBt22mv92 gVX9yET/q5d6w+XEeCHqTn6Bn4XDrSz1D+fBkma9R/7yiqwC4DmeZNiL9 Q==; X-CSE-ConnectionGUID: JwEcFnxWQG6DR4OhN/wi5g== X-CSE-MsgGUID: c3qcGfO0SuSYAqVCGubp9g== X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="6800,10657,11609"; a="82241295" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="6.19,294,1754982000"; d="scan'208";a="82241295" Received: from orviesa001.jf.intel.com ([10.64.159.141]) by orvoesa102.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 10 Nov 2025 08:08:55 -0800 X-CSE-ConnectionGUID: UoC+gjLtQOyMe630jU9BjA== X-CSE-MsgGUID: 1gPJFTu5SWC7Ejv12HfmIw== X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="6.19,294,1754982000"; d="scan'208";a="225967747" Received: from kcaccard-desk.amr.corp.intel.com (HELO [10.125.111.198]) ([10.125.111.198]) by smtpauth.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 10 Nov 2025 08:08:54 -0800 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 08:08:53 -0800 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: workflows@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH] [v2] Documentation: Provide guidelines for tool-generated content To: Christian Brauner , Dave Hansen Cc: Vlastimil Babka , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "workflows@vger.kernel.org" , "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" , Steven Rostedt , Dan Williams , Theodore Ts'o , Sasha Levin , Jonathan Corbet , Kees Cook , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Miguel Ojeda , Shuah Khan References: <20251105231514.3167738-1-dave.hansen@linux.intel.com> <653b4187-ec4f-4f5d-ae76-d37f46070cb4@suse.cz> <20251110-weiht-etablieren-39e7b63ef76d@brauner> From: Dave Hansen Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=dave.hansen@intel.com; keydata= xsFNBE6HMP0BEADIMA3XYkQfF3dwHlj58Yjsc4E5y5G67cfbt8dvaUq2fx1lR0K9h1bOI6fC oAiUXvGAOxPDsB/P6UEOISPpLl5IuYsSwAeZGkdQ5g6m1xq7AlDJQZddhr/1DC/nMVa/2BoY 2UnKuZuSBu7lgOE193+7Uks3416N2hTkyKUSNkduyoZ9F5twiBhxPJwPtn/wnch6n5RsoXsb ygOEDxLEsSk/7eyFycjE+btUtAWZtx+HseyaGfqkZK0Z9bT1lsaHecmB203xShwCPT49Blxz VOab8668QpaEOdLGhtvrVYVK7x4skyT3nGWcgDCl5/Vp3TWA4K+IofwvXzX2ON/Mj7aQwf5W iC+3nWC7q0uxKwwsddJ0Nu+dpA/UORQWa1NiAftEoSpk5+nUUi0WE+5DRm0H+TXKBWMGNCFn c6+EKg5zQaa8KqymHcOrSXNPmzJuXvDQ8uj2J8XuzCZfK4uy1+YdIr0yyEMI7mdh4KX50LO1 pmowEqDh7dLShTOif/7UtQYrzYq9cPnjU2ZW4qd5Qz2joSGTG9eCXLz5PRe5SqHxv6ljk8mb ApNuY7bOXO/A7T2j5RwXIlcmssqIjBcxsRRoIbpCwWWGjkYjzYCjgsNFL6rt4OL11OUF37wL QcTl7fbCGv53KfKPdYD5hcbguLKi/aCccJK18ZwNjFhqr4MliQARAQABzUVEYXZpZCBDaHJp c3RvcGhlciBIYW5zZW4gKEludGVsIFdvcmsgQWRkcmVzcykgPGRhdmUuaGFuc2VuQGludGVs LmNvbT7CwXgEEwECACIFAlQ+9J0CGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEGg1 lTBwyZKwLZUP/0dnbhDc229u2u6WtK1s1cSd9WsflGXGagkR6liJ4um3XCfYWDHvIdkHYC1t MNcVHFBwmQkawxsYvgO8kXT3SaFZe4ISfB4K4CL2qp4JO+nJdlFUbZI7cz/Td9z8nHjMcWYF IQuTsWOLs/LBMTs+ANumibtw6UkiGVD3dfHJAOPNApjVr+M0P/lVmTeP8w0uVcd2syiaU5jB aht9CYATn+ytFGWZnBEEQFnqcibIaOrmoBLu2b3fKJEd8Jp7NHDSIdrvrMjYynmc6sZKUqH2 I1qOevaa8jUg7wlLJAWGfIqnu85kkqrVOkbNbk4TPub7VOqA6qG5GCNEIv6ZY7HLYd/vAkVY E8Plzq/NwLAuOWxvGrOl7OPuwVeR4hBDfcrNb990MFPpjGgACzAZyjdmYoMu8j3/MAEW4P0z F5+EYJAOZ+z212y1pchNNauehORXgjrNKsZwxwKpPY9qb84E3O9KYpwfATsqOoQ6tTgr+1BR CCwP712H+E9U5HJ0iibN/CDZFVPL1bRerHziuwuQuvE0qWg0+0SChFe9oq0KAwEkVs6ZDMB2 P16MieEEQ6StQRlvy2YBv80L1TMl3T90Bo1UUn6ARXEpcbFE0/aORH/jEXcRteb+vuik5UGY 5TsyLYdPur3TXm7XDBdmmyQVJjnJKYK9AQxj95KlXLVO38lczsFNBFRjzmoBEACyAxbvUEhd GDGNg0JhDdezyTdN8C9BFsdxyTLnSH31NRiyp1QtuxvcqGZjb2trDVuCbIzRrgMZLVgo3upr MIOx1CXEgmn23Zhh0EpdVHM8IKx9Z7V0r+rrpRWFE8/wQZngKYVi49PGoZj50ZEifEJ5qn/H Nsp2+Y+bTUjDdgWMATg9DiFMyv8fvoqgNsNyrrZTnSgoLzdxr89FGHZCoSoAK8gfgFHuO54B lI8QOfPDG9WDPJ66HCodjTlBEr/Cwq6GruxS5i2Y33YVqxvFvDa1tUtl+iJ2SWKS9kCai2DR 3BwVONJEYSDQaven/EHMlY1q8Vln3lGPsS11vSUK3QcNJjmrgYxH5KsVsf6PNRj9mp8Z1kIG qjRx08+nnyStWC0gZH6NrYyS9rpqH3j+hA2WcI7De51L4Rv9pFwzp161mvtc6eC/GxaiUGuH BNAVP0PY0fqvIC68p3rLIAW3f97uv4ce2RSQ7LbsPsimOeCo/5vgS6YQsj83E+AipPr09Caj 0hloj+hFoqiticNpmsxdWKoOsV0PftcQvBCCYuhKbZV9s5hjt9qn8CE86A5g5KqDf83Fxqm/ vXKgHNFHE5zgXGZnrmaf6resQzbvJHO0Fb0CcIohzrpPaL3YepcLDoCCgElGMGQjdCcSQ+Ci FCRl0Bvyj1YZUql+ZkptgGjikQARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJUY85qAhsMAAoJEGg1lTBwyZKw l4IQAIKHs/9po4spZDFyfDjunimEhVHqlUt7ggR1Hsl/tkvTSze8pI1P6dGp2XW6AnH1iayn yRcoyT0ZJ+Zmm4xAH1zqKjWplzqdb/dO28qk0bPso8+1oPO8oDhLm1+tY+cOvufXkBTm+whm +AyNTjaCRt6aSMnA/QHVGSJ8grrTJCoACVNhnXg/R0g90g8iV8Q+IBZyDkG0tBThaDdw1B2l asInUTeb9EiVfL/Zjdg5VWiF9LL7iS+9hTeVdR09vThQ/DhVbCNxVk+DtyBHsjOKifrVsYep WpRGBIAu3bK8eXtyvrw1igWTNs2wazJ71+0z2jMzbclKAyRHKU9JdN6Hkkgr2nPb561yjcB8 sIq1pFXKyO+nKy6SZYxOvHxCcjk2fkw6UmPU6/j/nQlj2lfOAgNVKuDLothIxzi8pndB8Jju KktE5HJqUUMXePkAYIxEQ0mMc8Po7tuXdejgPMwgP7x65xtfEqI0RuzbUioFltsp1jUaRwQZ MTsCeQDdjpgHsj+P2ZDeEKCbma4m6Ez/YWs4+zDm1X8uZDkZcfQlD9NldbKDJEXLIjYWo1PH hYepSffIWPyvBMBTW2W5FRjJ4vLRrJSUoEfJuPQ3vW9Y73foyo/qFoURHO48AinGPZ7PC7TF vUaNOTjKedrqHkaOcqB185ahG2had0xnFsDPlx5y In-Reply-To: <20251110-weiht-etablieren-39e7b63ef76d@brauner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11/10/25 00:58, Christian Brauner wrote: ... > This reads like a factual statement about "impressiveness" of the tools. > Just drop that sentence, please. It doesn't add value to the commit > message at all.\ Sure thing. Dropped. ...>>> These tools are constantly becoming more capable and >>> +undoubtedly improve developer productivity. At the same time, reviewer > > "undoubtedly improve developer productivity"? > Am I reading an advert or kernel documentation about the policy how to > use new tooling? > > Please keep it factual without statements about what perceived value > this adds. People use it and we have to have a policy for it. There's no > need to celebrate it. I can definitely steer this away from perceived value. But the main point of this section was to do some impedance matching between maintainers and contributors. You (the contributor) may be more productive, but the maintainer just got more patches to review. So we could easily tone this down by changing: These tools are constantly becoming more capable and undoubtedly improve developer productivity. to These tools can increase the volume of contributions. But I do think it's important to make the connection between reviewer/maintainer scarcity and tooling.