From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de [80.237.130.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF24B182B7; Tue, 13 Jan 2026 16:07:36 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=80.237.130.52 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1768320458; cv=none; b=UcUPoLA6MOTzKuAH9LFgwzu2ZbherbzgGxQIk5pxAlu7z5cnfeahZ6HHRnu+ZBku18PGxqOgSnwl39lxi3eUT/Mh9mAibez05rgF2JBeawF2+AduLKTY2yvRWSZ10ukhjXlRPFcvGigf1NdyzUTnt6DJbRNu0spkXgSnzmvD+pk= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1768320458; c=relaxed/simple; bh=zg0ft9cqjmRzYW+X3fu1ewNm7MEFWIpOC9I7fuZGvp8=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=r0qCxhuFtCWw1hxwaAwPIQgcfxNl7C64IzkrDlyoPoCfzYFC2e40BFTbz/nRfLsRvcMB9jW12DmsiPkz1oWZF+qv00Eiu02EE5pOawYYE6SgfcTXK2fs4zgk1RzHLc3jtkqEJ48iCh4oshR7HUp5ib9pSOqPHhqvyNnlNbHhCwY= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; 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t=1768320456; x=1768752456; b=Cjf3p+/nJYfWguPUBDrkiD47zd9roRA+eA7Un1DxWtW8JKdAyCh9oWM48pxu4 yMtVEbxt9sgcqY0l9HxX2pARTAnIwDTkhIo8SBc0cD348iWuHvsmz+qSWnd9CwXOV3pm7XcJtN1oj S0cPehwkcDyxmpkvstDSbau/XgYR3fVhU7RxCiqEshom11zK5VbUV6m4lheY2L4zUr4n2zmYMwOMU DtLzM1iexONuB26h1ENWuVCU/U8rx70sRL0Lb4yE0hUGkxCtCikOrz2sX3m9o4z9fVuWISL9HXUMW DUl5J5QpW8r9DQGWXGY0pnfexVpXWGzilwrdnhjfz02SlkVAlg==; Received: from [2a02:8108:8984:1d00:a0cf:1912:4be:477f]; authenticated by wp530.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA256__AES_128_GCM:128) id 1vfgve-00959d-1C; Tue, 13 Jan 2026 17:07:34 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2026 17:07:33 +0100 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: workflows@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 05/30] docs: reporting-issues: outline why reporting is complicated To: Jonathan Corbet Cc: workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, regressions@lists.linux.dev, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org References: <87ecqonsse.fsf@trenco.lwn.net> From: Thorsten Leemhuis Content-Language: de-DE, en-US Autocrypt: addr=linux@leemhuis.info; 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charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;linux@leemhuis.info;1768320456;27a130ca; X-HE-SMSGID: 1vfgve-00959d-1C On 10/27/25 18:44, Jonathan Corbet wrote: > Thorsten Leemhuis writes: > >> Replace the closing words with a section that describes why reporting >> Linux kernel bugs is more complicated than in other FLOSS projects. >> >> Signed-off-by: Thorsten Leemhuis >> --- >> .../admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst | 67 ++++++++++++++++--- >> 1 file changed, 59 insertions(+), 8 deletions(-) > > So the text is OK but ... this is now the second section that is > essentially a long apology for the kernel process being so difficult. > It seems redundant with the other text, and I'm not convinced we need > it. > > Again, length is an impediment to getting people to actually read this > stuff; we should be trying to be as concise as we can. Do we really > need this? I thought about this for a while, but in the end I this section and the one from 4/30 are worth it. Let me explain my line of thought: * Yes, they make the document a longer, but it's in an appendix, which makes it relatively obvious that these are optional background details you don't have to read. * You in your reply to 3/30 asked to "Consider also soliciting patches to improve it" -- something I in the context had found obvious and not worth mentioning, as I thought, "everybody that knows how to send patches will do so without us mentioning it here". But for these two sections it's different: is stuff that is obvious for us, but not obvious for many non-developers (at least from what I see when processing bugs/regressions reports= and relevant for them. That's because the kernel IMHO is not "an open-source program like any other", as you mentioned in a reply to 4/30: - Other FLOSS software is relatively independent, but the kernel is mostly drivers -- so without the right hardware, there sometimes is nothing that developers can do in case of bugs. We also normally don't remove orphaned code due to the "no regressions" rule, unless it's getting really old and/or in the way, so there is nothing anybody will do about a bug report -- which is unusual. The stuff in 4/30 explains such aspects. - The kernel development model is different in some important aspects, which can be even confusing for people familiar with FLOSS practices. Like the "mainline developers might not care about bugs in stable/longterm kernels, while the stable team will leave things to the mainline developers if the problem happens there, too". This is rare and IMHO needs to be explained somewhere, as then we can point people to this explanation that otherwise will just feel pushed around and become annoyed by the kernel (some obviously will nevertheless feel that, but that way we can get at least some people to understand things and/or on our side). Ciao, Thorsten