From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F665C433FE for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2022 12:18:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S229866AbiJBMSv (ORCPT ); Sun, 2 Oct 2022 08:18:51 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:48572 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229865AbiJBMSu (ORCPT ); Sun, 2 Oct 2022 08:18:50 -0400 Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA9072FC29; Sun, 2 Oct 2022 05:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from letrec.thunk.org ([50.224.35.3]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 292CIMkg004134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 2 Oct 2022 08:18:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mit.edu; s=outgoing; t=1664713105; bh=xm8/ovDerx/0Wto/6gkA+29zQ8plVt/TZLt1P8cBNkM=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=EbQCJMkPhVfpzLIQ4CWwfMH5rakqnaxcrWZYUmRwNSVbpzNRhct1sIGykD5S4A7Ci vg3NFWbochckUpJLNLb4Lzo4QvbcTzav/qDgW3MqA7QyqFNhcuJNnMBog4rtqaawqi BFgYzLdyT43WNYLHzSn1XXeyxDCus1Gkrzp7Wi7ZIb+H/y3JyMupHMAOSNyZ302PFv 1RoHJKCvbMkxFIFu45Tlb/ZcQRP6vQL1eI/9qzkfrvM3rkhVYLiSLVNwTOE+oaH1jc NOAKOYYHi3MJz41BmNKs7kmTsNh8nILZvk9x8F9dHJenjQ4O1Y8m+Twcd6scyHyxvc JIuzkSIUZD0PA== Received: by letrec.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 89CDE8C2AAD; Sun, 2 Oct 2022 08:18:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2022 08:18:22 -0400 From: "Theodore Ts'o" To: "Artem S. Tashkinov" Cc: Thorsten Leemhuis , Greg KH , Konstantin Ryabitsev , workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML , Linus Torvalds , "regressions@lists.linux.dev" , ksummit@lists.linux.dev Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues" Message-ID: References: <05d149a0-e3de-8b09-ecc0-3ea73e080be3@leemhuis.info> <9a2fdff8-d0d3-ebba-d344-3c1016237fe5@gmx.com> <83f6dd2b-784a-e6d3-ebaf-6ad9cfe4eefe@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: workflows@vger.kernel.org On Sat, Oct 01, 2022 at 02:58:04PM +0000, Artem S. Tashkinov wrote: > > My expectations are actually quite low: > > * A central place to collect bugs (yeah, bugzilla) > * Proper up to date components (they don't change too often, so there's > not a lot of work to be done - you can refresh them probably every 12-24 > months and it's gonna be totally OK) > * An ability to CC the relevant people/mailing lists (this is the only > serious missing feature) > > That's it. It's a billion times better than random emails sent to random > mailing lists. Signing up once is easier that to keep track of whom and > where you've emailed or not. And of course it's a ton lot easier to find > the existing bug reports. First of all, some of the components do CC the relevant mailing lists automatically. And this is the part of Bugzilla which is hand-hacked and has no, zero, nada support upstream. I'll defer to Konstantin about how easy it is to keep that working. Secondly, not everyone is happy with getting an e-mail message sent to a mailing list that has a lot of bugzilla metadata associated with it, and depending on how they respond, the response might not make it back to bugzilla. Finally, in the absense of someone to actually close bugzilla entries and do other necessary grooming, the bugzilla database will rapidly become useless --- in which case, you might as well have a web form that just helps the user send e-mail to the mailing list, and hope it doesn't become a SPAM magnet. > Bugzilla as it is works nearly perfectly. We have a number of developers > who don't want to touch it or get emails from it - it's their right. > However it would be madness to take it from users. That will make filing > and following up on bug reports an absolutely poor experience for > absolute most users. At the moment, developers aren't following up on the bug reports. There is some debate as to why. Is it because users who can't figure out how to send e-mail, and who send web-form based e-mails send low quality bug reports that can't be easily responded to unless someone is paid $$$ and/or has the patience of a saint? Is it because components aren't being gatewayed to mailing lists? And if we force developers to get Bugzilla spam whether they want it not, and they said, "absolutely not", is it there right to have the mailing list gateway disabled --- and if so, what does that do to the user experience? Thats basically the situation we have right now. - Ted