From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D45C433F5 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2022 13:08:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S229517AbiJANIL (ORCPT ); Sat, 1 Oct 2022 09:08:11 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:57828 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229464AbiJANIK (ORCPT ); Sat, 1 Oct 2022 09:08:10 -0400 Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3756D3F1CD; Sat, 1 Oct 2022 06:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from letrec.thunk.org ([50.224.35.3]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 291D7mfE023702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 1 Oct 2022 09:07:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mit.edu; s=outgoing; t=1664629670; bh=P//OoxldAkFk/Vwn6LleaNPxpx993z2UARUWlfwcR/4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=Wtad/A92qbRt2lM7qmzOx9Rdoc+3ZM9ULvYkOtsv74oJMUwVS6bhFa7gjrfMnjJTo kfMMCvqDJ2NY4SLgyqFFVyPRkp7mTV7e7pag3jFQE2rf7wFCG351kup9pGm8FvL0Mm wpv+vqMm8XevT39t634KhrTk24sJszdKj73ng1HUcGzDknMhj88ZEaDzox5fYBt3DK 2+Na2UYYtyulTO21fZhx2kchB9MIj7BZ1fMiPSV5PnK6LxrExyKeiHj5lkYEFZalh5 jN5rzaMj9nuA452+XW53X6UssUa0lqoFTtMb+V7qe7D3Ey3wf/3thubo//hWtcvqj9 KHQbxvpjwMhsg== Received: by letrec.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 2AD758C2AB4; Sat, 1 Oct 2022 09:07:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 09:07:48 -0400 From: "Theodore Ts'o" To: Thorsten Leemhuis Cc: "Artem S. Tashkinov" , Greg KH , Konstantin Ryabitsev , workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML , Linus Torvalds , "regressions@lists.linux.dev" , ksummit@lists.linux.dev Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues" Message-ID: References: <05d149a0-e3de-8b09-ecc0-3ea73e080be3@leemhuis.info> <9a2fdff8-d0d3-ebba-d344-3c1016237fe5@gmx.com> <83f6dd2b-784a-e6d3-ebaf-6ad9cfe4eefe@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: workflows@vger.kernel.org On Sat, Oct 01, 2022 at 01:34:26PM +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > > Is that perfect and will in work in 100% of the cases? No, definitely > not. Would it be good to have a a kind of first level support group that > can help in this case? Sure. But we don't have one right now. I sooner > or later hope to work towards forming such a group, but there are other > things that are higher on my todo list for now. I think the other thing which we really need to say is that if you really want better support, there are plenty of places who will happily accept your money and provide you that support. Artem, it seems to me that you are hoping that volunteers will provide a commercial level of support --- and that's just never going to happen. The users vastly outnumber us developers by orders of magnitude, and if someone needs a huge amount of hand-holding, maybe they should be paying for a support contract with Red Hat, or Suse or Canonical, or CIQ. Can we do better? Sure! But I think we need to clearly set expectations for what upstream developers will and will not provide support for. (Example: bug reports for LTS kernels are not interesting to me, unless you can also reproduce them in the latest upstream kernel --- and if you can't build your own kernel from scratch --- boo, hoo, maybe you need to pay someone to help you out.) I also think that we need to clearly express that any kind of support is best efforts only, and if someone has anything business-, mission-, or life-critical, they should darned well pay $$$ for a proper support contract. - Ted