From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE089C433FE for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2022 13:25:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S229754AbiJBNZK (ORCPT ); Sun, 2 Oct 2022 09:25:10 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:40680 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229740AbiJBNZJ (ORCPT ); Sun, 2 Oct 2022 09:25:09 -0400 Received: from premium237-5.web-hosting.com (premium237-5.web-hosting.com [66.29.146.205]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7C3513F78; Sun, 2 Oct 2022 06:25:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sladewatkins.net; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=TkwwomKWlqnBIYPS4/OnWkjJBdn/hEfUJ8NnLaO1wcE=; b=SJOuSpjJpptnqJCMproRy2Y/pQ XTBEoSvrtXwXQGmKBhF5icbvLvUOPRXYghdh/ZoBUVdErsQMCtbNZtNOi06upylUwUG5jvBDxnmEx MbOU9RpLNR6FBObjYe8TgYqox/x8pmIHvWHOvQ55Jb7SjiLvT3zHZihsr0O0xe0RCmWfVzB+xg2TY VOoQ4NYy4c9cyZeSpVYSvI3IxuypNjVTmgPMuyRCVtSkmA1j9l4yNrP8FT1fT1dXybXidvAafmqwK BWZKzmb5RwHNcku0QvHwLS78l5tFobFtzSWAkspqUP6MNZ9MAWu0xTiyq2g7ewCFLEXU798cPuDX4 y6a0Eacg==; Received: from pool-108-4-135-94.albyny.fios.verizon.net ([108.4.135.94]:56344 helo=smtpclient.apple) by premium237.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from ) id 1oeyxt-002dt6-1e; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 09:25:05 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.1\)) Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues" From: Slade Watkins In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2022 09:25:01 -0400 Cc: "Artem S. Tashkinov" , Thorsten Leemhuis , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Konstantin Ryabitsev , workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML , Linus Torvalds , "regressions@lists.linux.dev" , ksummit@lists.linux.dev Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <936650EA-E521-41FF-81C3-AEEB72E484B1@sladewatkins.net> References: <05d149a0-e3de-8b09-ecc0-3ea73e080be3@leemhuis.info> <9a2fdff8-d0d3-ebba-d344-3c1016237fe5@gmx.com> <83f6dd2b-784a-e6d3-ebaf-6ad9cfe4eefe@gmx.com> To: Theodore Ts'o X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.1) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - premium237.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - vger.kernel.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - sladewatkins.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: premium237.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: srw@sladewatkins.net X-Authenticated-Sender: premium237.web-hosting.com: srw@sladewatkins.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: workflows@vger.kernel.org Hello, > On Oct 2, 2022, at 8:18 AM, Theodore Ts'o wrote: >=20 > On Sat, Oct 01, 2022 at 02:58:04PM +0000, Artem S. Tashkinov wrote: >>=20 >> My expectations are actually quite low: >>=20 >> * A central place to collect bugs (yeah, bugzilla) >> * Proper up to date components (they don't change too often, so = there's >> not a lot of work to be done - you can refresh them probably every = 12-24 >> months and it's gonna be totally OK) >> * An ability to CC the relevant people/mailing lists (this is the = only >> serious missing feature) >>=20 >> That's it. It's a billion times better than random emails sent to = random >> mailing lists. Signing up once is easier that to keep track of whom = and >> where you've emailed or not. And of course it's a ton lot easier to = find >> the existing bug reports. >=20 > First of all, some of the components do CC the relevant mailing lists > automatically. And this is the part of Bugzilla which is hand-hacked > and has no, zero, nada support upstream. I'll defer to Konstantin > about how easy it is to keep that working. >=20 > Secondly, not everyone is happy with getting an e-mail message sent to > a mailing list that has a lot of bugzilla metadata associated with it, > and depending on how they respond, the response might not make it back > to bugzilla. +1.=20 Personally, I prefer Bugzilla _over_ getting e-mail. But that=E2=80=99s = just my opinion. >> Bugzilla as it is works nearly perfectly. We have a number of = developers >> who don't want to touch it or get emails from it - it's their right. >> However it would be madness to take it from users. That will make = filing >> and following up on bug reports an absolutely poor experience for >> absolute most users. >=20 > At the moment, developers aren't following up on the bug reports. > There is some debate as to why. Is it because users who can't figure > out how to send e-mail, and who send web-form based e-mails send low > quality bug reports that can't be easily responded to unless someone > is paid $$$ and/or has the patience of a saint? Is it because > components aren't being gatewayed to mailing lists? My hope is that we find a solution that *encourages* developers to = follow-up on bug reports. So far, we=E2=80=99ve just gone back and forth = on this and gotten nowhere. >=20 > And if we force developers to get Bugzilla spam whether they want it > not, and they said, "absolutely not", is it there right to have the > mailing list gateway disabled --- and if so, what does that do to the > user experience? Thats basically the situation we have right now. Yep, agreed. -srw