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X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?us-ascii?Q?Vq8xPdfgLt9EOYkwiYfLMkfLtzeGJ/Ze2X0oz+6V8a/DNCmGo8nAQC+5YRDA?= =?us-ascii?Q?sXySjXSfjwz4t+kz3tNktk++gpSnh6JGKIZyGvSur3vMuRoVpa4jL5ECbIZk?= =?us-ascii?Q?gmD208fRtTBbcWInrI5IC1Ce8+tBuDFrCLVtmJqmtTF3YswiqS1bbU+fzcYv?= =?us-ascii?Q?Z2d/EkMkostQsriJmmlqT0+jRmiEiCE25ugQpiRtDG7IE7JHPNvYDDDHcNQ3?= =?us-ascii?Q?t2P0YQic8Xrxd2NyHudchGjoRunJL/rv+zctmxEFAJzNnmZT86gVin09x4D+?= =?us-ascii?Q?DpqnWFT/auaZtt0vHtHrCPs2QPI1kc0ZMJ01w5NMJfT/GOmqYQ488As/eTHA?= =?us-ascii?Q?sJOTW2mzIhSo5OuUuaR3dIZshLh1LrdwSYKQIu6dIUWKHcM3x3qvy+gStTS8?= =?us-ascii?Q?TCNnO5QG+jI6KG0vTvVEC1dlFiwybboizjCydVEBqj4VbTAZaNqazPKBc4tD?= =?us-ascii?Q?2Xehyt3BKAbJjIKlG8j1uuLaUrTcxXXObZQPhPRIK3aO8otv8W2yDEo53Wil?= =?us-ascii?Q?Ir0/nlugv+rotjUTJ5VB1gttiiFwB63HYNxo4gmD2BO62xtKLEccEqhd5xfb?= =?us-ascii?Q?GcLPrHkO/e3Ob5AoV4ae/2L5XgZJtPBjsTb7u/RcZJaC5OXepSvgdRRMVOa7?= =?us-ascii?Q?jHm/I5N5P6HeFwEnuRCHtkF2znpPtQV5hNMAm3UhiMgyncgtgdCZTSvJW2tT?= =?us-ascii?Q?6oAr+gJi9MLItPnuykh5wtl+cd5YJBdNe9aUS8dgJ7sBIw4gbHX3OWdol1el?= =?us-ascii?Q?qBUnc2qLU/Qk4gU8txMwdUE7QHRcZXvX38/FsBzo9t4Uy9lCMYunhh47GtFP?= =?us-ascii?Q?kBbDcuHebVHdelHKKxJHF0hQCsD1BRJIr3u9RnwuaL8M0JzStlU8G+0XiyK/?= =?us-ascii?Q?F/gQI274uIX0+/8mMF0Dqroii+dTs1ERk3WHvodZdIvISLElkHX6eKr/oDSq?= =?us-ascii?Q?xZVlWh2byRE3XzHpzOEluuQmZ1eS7NP1AIVWdKBbJQrABzuU87JyK+8Voe6c?= =?us-ascii?Q?wRe6ICgjFuOSKtuGL1BdVB/sd2npFL4eJ4BIDYRKIMu9PoTvEycFi/dJJqTf?= =?us-ascii?Q?wCqpg6JouSWcoy34VxeGISyld7I3QzGdp5cGqwzTVaMHYxNy4Ad/mdsjSZ+Y?= =?us-ascii?Q?hVveDtxfXOgF0rT4bdwFRShHtdpwKlwQswUiTE6LnoeDHqCzP0yxSpSMPttb?= =?us-ascii?Q?/yPWH/maik7e/qH4kjDUxwg4zEcSSxFigfCmBoqlRQkFoLnP7sEjHqgfvvjZ?= =?us-ascii?Q?HMTZTAW+MDISs8lA4KrzKRW/wst96FWPVxGzxG9BWkKuSfDlBbtpsiXV/IJb?= =?us-ascii?Q?Dr1SXTub5FQ707hpS4Lncqvt49nlM5EVCBEV8QustJFtdjyUpbk48V5kJonX?= =?us-ascii?Q?9S+oNjSSNcZxtj7hJMJCQ4uAnChAJITiNKABQk5oBkb/GbZxd5muIcjU4kM0?= =?us-ascii?Q?HjOqpMFZa2MAqhBJlrEd1kg7iZgsBpOa7NF6ar/T4dveoZM496XMstWH2cWo?= =?us-ascii?Q?DjsUBwVLfWioPxIvo+MMdyAK54wgulBjq8Y4TwJil16rVBOIR+hmoB6gRklq?= =?us-ascii?Q?l8svObaRVG2WzMSHO81M6xLt6SPWoJmiGPvIKLaBvnH6DR89jeMlwnEPtLFL?= =?us-ascii?Q?4g=3D=3D?= X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f2779467-0c97-4f2b-4edc-08dca2d9a584 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: PH8PR11MB8107.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jul 2024 01:18:04.9368 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 46c98d88-e344-4ed4-8496-4ed7712e255d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: iCWasXKeNB6fUCjXgH/keh1iuS0+Hw1Wo2nQcJpfH1ic22faPsHibIdK3hdMQbMxn/oKMjwtVyuPgokJaA0VvN6CPMX3ZANU5FiXZbxa4b4= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: IA1PR11MB8098 X-OriginatorOrg: intel.com Jakub Kicinski wrote: [..] > > So if this goes in as is, so be it, but it feels like a missed > > opportunity to extoll the virtues of open development. The benefits are > > in the same vector as the "release early, release often" guidance where > > the urge to polish a solution in private is a common trait of newcomers. > > Lets document some tribal knowledge of how one moves past that first > > instinct. > > Hm, the disconnect may be that you think this happens with maintainers > without upstream experience. So we can train them up to be better. > In most cases it happens to folks with experience who are good > maintainers. They just get 2 orders of magnitudes more patches from > inside the company that outside. Then a contribution comes from outside, > the maintainer is overworked, and tries to shoehorn the patch into the > existing, internal-only process. Oh, ok, I was failing to grok that from "Open development" note in isolation. If the guidance is for maintainers, I would say just put your changelog directly into the docuementation, that reads as specific and actionable to me. For submitters an update to reporting-* might be also be useful to remind them to push back on requests to go off-list, but not necessary.