workflows.vger.kernel.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
To: Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>, <corbet@lwn.net>
Cc: Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>, <workflows@vger.kernel.org>,
	<linux-doc@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs: maintainer: discourage taking conversations off-list
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2024 11:43:14 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <669179424b589_1a77429479@dwillia2-xfh.jf.intel.com.notmuch> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20240712144903.392284-1-kuba@kernel.org>

Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> Multiple vendors seem to prefer taking discussions off list, and
> ask contributors to work with them privately rather than just send
> patches to the list. I'd imagine this is because it's hard to fit in
> time for random developers popping up with features to review into
> packed schedule. From what I've seen "work in private" usually means
> someone on the company side will be assigned to handle the interaction,
> possibly months later. In worst case, the person scheduled to help
> the contributor takes over and writes the code themselves.
> This is not how the community is supposed to work.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>
> ---
> CC: workflows@vger.kernel.org
> CC: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org
> ---
>  .../maintainer/feature-and-driver-maintainers.rst     | 11 +++++++++++
>  1 file changed, 11 insertions(+)
> 
> diff --git a/Documentation/maintainer/feature-and-driver-maintainers.rst b/Documentation/maintainer/feature-and-driver-maintainers.rst
> index f04cc183e1de..ac7798280201 100644
> --- a/Documentation/maintainer/feature-and-driver-maintainers.rst
> +++ b/Documentation/maintainer/feature-and-driver-maintainers.rst
> @@ -83,6 +83,17 @@ bugs as well, if the report is of reasonable quality or indicates a
>  problem that might be severe -- especially if they have *Supported*
>  status of the codebase in the MAINTAINERS file.
>  
> +Open development
> +----------------
> +
> +Discussions about user reported issues, and development of new code
> +should be conducted in a manner typical for the larger subsystem.
> +It is common for development within a single company to be conducted
> +behind closed doors. However, maintainers must not redirect discussions
> +and development related to the upstream code from the upstream mailing lists
> +to closed forums or private conversations. Reasonable exceptions to this
> +guidance include discussions about security related issues.
> +

This reads as a vague ambiguous quasi-threat with no actionable way to
enforce it. In contrast, successful maintainers already have a sense of
the benefits of pushing discussions to the list as much as possible.

For new and growing maintainers, which I assume are the audience for
this guidance, that are unaware of the pitfalls of taking conversations
off-list, they likely need help understanding the *benefits* of open
development.

So if this goes in as is, so be it, but it feels like a missed
opportunity to extoll the virtues of open development. The benefits are
in the same vector as the "release early, release often" guidance where
the urge to polish a solution in private is a common trait of newcomers.
Lets document some tribal knowledge of how one moves past that first
instinct.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2024-07-12 18:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-07-12 14:49 Jakub Kicinski
2024-07-12 15:06 ` Greg KH
2024-07-12 15:25 ` Mark Brown
2024-07-12 15:42   ` Shuah Khan
2024-07-12 18:11     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2024-07-12 18:19       ` Randy Dunlap
2024-07-12 23:45       ` Jakub Kicinski
2024-07-13  0:00         ` Dan Williams
2024-07-13  0:12           ` Jakub Kicinski
2024-07-13  7:43         ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2024-07-12 18:43 ` Dan Williams [this message]
2024-07-13  0:05   ` Jakub Kicinski
2024-07-13  1:18     ` Dan Williams
2024-07-13  8:13     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2024-07-13 14:19       ` Laurent Pinchart
2024-07-13 16:07         ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2024-07-13 23:29           ` Jakub Kicinski
2024-07-15 13:29       ` Mark Brown
2024-07-13 14:26 ` Laurent Pinchart
2024-07-13 23:23   ` Jakub Kicinski
2024-07-13 14:28 ` Carlos Bilbao
2024-07-13 16:25   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=669179424b589_1a77429479@dwillia2-xfh.jf.intel.com.notmuch \
    --to=dan.j.williams@intel.com \
    --cc=corbet@lwn.net \
    --cc=kuba@kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-doc@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=workflows@vger.kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox