workflows.vger.kernel.org archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Lorenzo Stoakes <lorenzo.stoakes@oracle.com>
To: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com>
Cc: Dave Hansen <dave@sr71.net>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Shuah Khan <shuah@kernel.org>,
	Kees Cook <kees@kernel.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Miguel Ojeda <ojeda@kernel.org>,
	Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@kernel.org>,
	SeongJae Park <sj@kernel.org>,
	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	NeilBrown <neilb@ownmail.net>, Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Sasha Levin <sashal@kernel.org>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>,
	workflows@vger.kernel.org, ksummit@lists.linux.dev
Subject: Re: [PATCH] [v3] Documentation: Provide guidelines for tool-generated content
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:32:39 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3e5b8889-bf3a-4436-a99d-0396081e65e0@lucifer.local> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <6ec883cfe97bf9eb50f71b00c24723f5ed4c273e.camel@HansenPartnership.com>

On Wed, Jan 07, 2026 at 05:39:48PM -0500, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Wed, 2026-01-07 at 21:15 +0000, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 07, 2026 at 11:18:52AM -0800, Dave Hansen wrote:
> > > On 1/7/26 10:12, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote:
> > > ...
> > > > I know Linus had the cute interpretation of it 'just being
> > > > another tool' but never before have people been able to do this.
> > >
> > > I respect your position here. But I'm not sure how to reconcile:
> > >
> > > 	LLMs are just another tool
> > > and
> > > 	LLMs are not just another tool
> > >
> > > :)
> >
> > Well I'm not asking you to reconcile that, I'm providing my point of
> > view which disagrees with the first position and makes a case for the
> > second. Isn't review about feedback both positive and negative?
> >
> > Obviously if this was intended to simply inform the community of the
> > committee's decision then apologies for misinterpreting it.
> >
> > I would simply argue that LLMs are not another tool on the basis of
> > the drastic negative impact its had in very many areas, for which you
> > need only take a cursory glance at the world to observe.
> >
> > Thinking LLMs are 'just another tool' is to say effectively that the
> > kernel is immune from this. Which seems to me a silly position.
>
> All tools are double edged and the better a tool is the more
> problematic its harmful uses become but people often use them anyway
> because of the beneficial uses.  You don't for instance classify
> chainsaws as not another tool because they can be used to deforest the
> Amazon.  All the document is saying is that we start from the place of
> treating AI like any other tool and, like any other tool, if it proves
> to cause way more problems than it solves, then we can then move on to
> other things.  There are other tools we've tried and abandoned (like
> compiling the kernel with c++), so this really isn't any different.

I mean using the same analogy I'd say the existing norms are designed for
spoons, you'd probably not want to apply those same to a chainsaw :)

>
> Regards,
>
> James
>

  reply	other threads:[~2026-01-08 10:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 96+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-01-06 20:51 Dave Hansen
2026-01-07 17:56 ` Paul E. McKenney
2026-01-07 18:12 ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-07 19:18   ` Dave Hansen
2026-01-07 21:15     ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-07 21:58       ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-08 11:29         ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 18:19           ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-08 18:30             ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-07 22:39       ` James Bottomley
2026-01-08 10:32         ` Lorenzo Stoakes [this message]
2026-01-07 23:50       ` dan.j.williams
2026-01-08 10:29         ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 11:43           ` Miguel Ojeda
2026-01-08 11:53             ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08  0:06       ` Linus Torvalds
2026-01-08 10:03         ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08  0:20       ` Dave Hansen
2026-01-08 10:14         ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 11:56         ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 13:17           ` James Bottomley
2026-01-08 13:56             ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 15:58               ` James Bottomley
2026-01-08 16:35                 ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 19:10                   ` Dave Hansen
2026-01-08 19:23                     ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 19:50                       ` Dave Hansen
2026-01-08 20:14                         ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-09  5:42                           ` Dan Carpenter
2026-01-09  7:28                             ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-09 15:28                               ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-09 15:35                                 ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-09  7:48                           ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-09 11:00                             ` Dan Carpenter
2026-01-09 11:25                               ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-09 15:39                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-09 15:48                                   ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-09 16:03                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-09 16:05                                       ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-12 15:06                                     ` Dave Hansen
2026-01-09 18:34                               ` Andrew Morton
2026-01-09 19:08                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-08 20:45                       ` Jens Axboe
2026-01-08 21:04                         ` Liam R. Howlett
2026-01-09  5:29                           ` Dan Carpenter
2026-01-09  7:54                             ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-09  8:54                               ` Laurent Pinchart
2026-01-09 15:51                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-09 15:55                                   ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-09 16:07                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-09 16:33                                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2026-01-10 15:25                               ` Serge E. Hallyn
2026-01-10 15:52                                 ` Matthew Wilcox
2026-01-10 16:02                                   ` James Bottomley
2026-01-10 16:07                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2026-01-12 19:02                                     ` Dan Carpenter
2026-01-08 14:01             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2026-01-08 14:24               ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 14:28                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2026-01-08 14:35                   ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 14:48               ` Julia Lawall
2026-01-08 15:01                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2026-01-08 16:42           ` Sasha Levin
2026-01-08 17:40             ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 18:27             ` Miguel Ojeda
2026-01-08 19:28               ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 19:30                 ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-09 16:30                 ` Miguel Ojeda
2026-01-09 16:37                   ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 19:16             ` Dave Hansen
     [not found]       ` <42192F04-2C46-4734-8CF6-DEA8739989C3@hohndel.org>
2026-01-08 10:40         ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08 13:41       ` Andrew Lunn
2026-01-08 13:53         ` Lorenzo Stoakes
2026-01-08  0:00 ` SeongJae Park
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2025-11-14 18:35 Dave Hansen
2025-11-14 20:08 ` Luis Chamberlain
2025-11-14 22:52   ` Dave Hansen
2025-11-14 20:17 ` SeongJae Park
2025-11-14 22:53   ` Dave Hansen
2025-11-14 23:19 ` dan.j.williams
2025-11-15 15:22 ` Thomas Gleixner
2025-11-15 19:05   ` Steven Rostedt
2025-11-15 19:07     ` Steven Rostedt
2025-11-15 23:30       ` Thomas Gleixner
2025-11-16 12:38         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2025-11-16 15:25           ` Kees Cook
2025-11-16 16:17             ` Steven Rostedt
2025-12-23 16:55               ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2025-12-23 17:10                 ` Jonathan Corbet
2025-12-23 20:56                   ` Steven Rostedt
2025-12-24 15:41                     ` Dave Hansen
2025-12-24 16:23                       ` Simon Glass
2025-11-16 16:01           ` Steven Rostedt
2025-11-17 19:13         ` Dave Hansen
2025-11-15 19:02 ` Steven Rostedt
2025-11-15 20:10 ` Randy Dunlap

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=3e5b8889-bf3a-4436-a99d-0396081e65e0@lucifer.local \
    --to=lorenzo.stoakes@oracle.com \
    --cc=James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com \
    --cc=corbet@lwn.net \
    --cc=dan.j.williams@intel.com \
    --cc=dave.hansen@linux.intel.com \
    --cc=dave@sr71.net \
    --cc=gregkh@linuxfoundation.org \
    --cc=kees@kernel.org \
    --cc=ksummit@lists.linux.dev \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=mcgrof@kernel.org \
    --cc=neilb@ownmail.net \
    --cc=ojeda@kernel.org \
    --cc=rostedt@goodmis.org \
    --cc=sashal@kernel.org \
    --cc=shuah@kernel.org \
    --cc=sj@kernel.org \
    --cc=tytso@mit.edu \
    --cc=vbabka@suse.cz \
    --cc=workflows@vger.kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox