From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8A1F44C7B; Sat, 13 Jul 2024 23:29:13 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1720913354; cv=none; b=BTJjIisMK4xrwB+T3LYvMycvSKDiHXwoKqd6dbK701iofgrEKkw6/4jjaxeWVmqDFxlmDtQTqFH9iDOq8OYX2FsxYBpGT1srgvXfkkj7Utn0w3Vyj6tuB1CRb4A4ltx3x0ehTDY/PhUwY6BGsQrRj+1wrA2vfYyC/d91g1eFLhU= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1720913354; c=relaxed/simple; bh=9YsAbIlpdz/tuyrdaEXBXa6p9dTowDSrz88F4VMwlIE=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=e89Gn1hbfi0GXMNM9kn3XayZK1MpkNc8EL32UXVoAJNgngcpsBZBZNxOGoq6sarZTDKLVn4CKrRk13kzThfiUl+O60xDbXUskXKDQM/oAXJAC5GyEwE0YqVmpH/U1lDWfVkeJ4+4uGS9KGv5c3KPDmWM3YnKR353nbbMpCsQ8t8= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=hbNbQ1Ih; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="hbNbQ1Ih" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 33F55C32781; Sat, 13 Jul 2024 23:29:13 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1720913353; bh=9YsAbIlpdz/tuyrdaEXBXa6p9dTowDSrz88F4VMwlIE=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=hbNbQ1IhwYDcVCgvy81O1+XK/9W2BkrXtx49AjtE1qQGaxm+d+m7QMpOxbsKE5pIC VlN04WdYzEjB1A939FWeou3FpFSnx3/GK6QISL6XmjiPkdYvWHVmPwQjvYZkx6vfzI 0PEpcj0DJpBbqCUwYtGI37qY+MTrbp9xgEOXTZrSuaTHBwW/fUT0GyiRiquMu4+0tz DyuVRcgDlhtW1gvDXOd4phpcFbeB3BMaQWbb1kWhJHv75a+X9+goI7GzRCZVh8I9aR rBXaOA6DQznl7Wqg1Dxc3UZrIwtJenEhVZSRrrmbQvFjyNSqFaua81q6MvF1QAb6Ba Wua6pyL57gmIw== Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2024 16:29:11 -0700 From: Jakub Kicinski To: Mauro Carvalho Chehab Cc: Laurent Pinchart , Dan Williams , corbet@lwn.net, workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] docs: maintainer: discourage taking conversations off-list Message-ID: <20240713162911.3973696a@kernel.org> In-Reply-To: <20240713180725.32972358@foz.lan> References: <20240712144903.392284-1-kuba@kernel.org> <669179424b589_1a77429479@dwillia2-xfh.jf.intel.com.notmuch> <20240712170558.50c89238@kernel.org> <20240713101328.72734cb0@foz.lan> <20240713141956.GH10946@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> <20240713180725.32972358@foz.lan> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: workflows@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 13 Jul 2024 18:07:25 +0200 Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: > That's basically what I said: such things happen top/down and not at > developer/maintainer level. Sure having it documented somewhere, on > some document that management would actually read can be useful on > discussions, specially when companies hire a third party company to > help with their upstream process. > > The point is: a developer-focused document - or even a submission > document process won't affect how companies do their inner source It's not a developer-focused document, Mauro. I said that the document should *ALSO*, not exclusively inform contributors that delay tactics and dismissing external contributors is not okay in Linux. > development: companies that have internally heavy development teams > will basically keep running their own internal development cycle, > being concerned about upstream only when their product managers > authorize them to publicly disclosure patches. > > If the goal is to create a management awareness about how to better > cope with upstream, then my suggestion is to write a new document > from scratch [1] focusing specifically on that, containing a list of > best practices with focus on orienting management inside companies > about how to deal with developers and maintainers working on > upstream. > > [1] there is a document there already that seems to be focused at > management style, but it doesn't cover any best practices > with regards to innersource/upstream: > > Documentation/process/management-style.rst Like multiple members of the TAB I did have a stab at rewriting management style at some point. It's not easy. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.