From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D08C433F5 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2022 02:47:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S231454AbiJACrb (ORCPT ); Fri, 30 Sep 2022 22:47:31 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:34752 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S230283AbiJACr2 (ORCPT ); Fri, 30 Sep 2022 22:47:28 -0400 Received: from premium237-5.web-hosting.com (premium237-5.web-hosting.com [66.29.146.205]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 629E127B00; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 19:47:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sladewatkins.net; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=GSSVx8a10C2Ptq/IxND8jGp4c8AAPLbLg6LWZR941oA=; b=bxwH8hzw/G1XWHnYnGgB7jXkWn dUhd1s9msXvk3+du0hChdGyjo5gnBNBdSAE5O5/rwXOSTfFmC6DweGMOz/vL5nPwAZ94jwUhurLY1 E7U6cIavTe5UEP/FdaBIxwc76b2u/Gya7D96cqLj9RgOkIL9LFqheCmwwyaFz5VVvwN0mxYRwNt9x 0zTYSFhl3StIoNYO7oOfpXnYQ8hr//F4i5og810+xnDCHlc3j8QC6J8PstokqBO6wr6flHNno1WIC sbrIr6DXArAMmeqTQnGO3/2FdIpgA2NAvHzspyC0y21CIuiFpmHB7XMP/lUJPL+COhvckgltZPTrw uFghToLQ==; Received: from pool-108-4-135-94.albyny.fios.verizon.net ([108.4.135.94]:51150 helo=smtpclient.apple) by premium237.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from ) id 1oeSXE-000I41-Sf; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 22:47:25 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.1\)) Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues" From: Slade Watkins In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 22:47:20 -0400 Cc: Laurent Pinchart , "Artem S. Tashkinov" , "Bird, Tim" , Thorsten Leemhuis , Konstantin Ryabitsev , "workflows@vger.kernel.org" , LKML , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Linus Torvalds , "regressions@lists.linux.dev" , "ksummit@lists.linux.dev" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0ED67BA1-087F-4E74-885E-4F9617187735@sladewatkins.net> References: <7b427b41-9446-063d-3161-e43eb2e353f9@gmx.com> <20220929135325.4riz4ijva2vc7q5p@meerkat.local> <95c3384b-53d0-fd6c-6ec5-a7e03fdeddfc@gmx.com> <3cfaef48-744f-000f-1be5-6f96d64dea24@gmx.com> To: Theodore Ts'o X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.1) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - premium237.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - vger.kernel.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - sladewatkins.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: premium237.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: srw@sladewatkins.net X-Authenticated-Sender: premium237.web-hosting.com: srw@sladewatkins.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: workflows@vger.kernel.org Hey there: > On Sep 30, 2022, at 9:18 PM, Theodore Ts'o wrote: >=20 > On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 07:47:26PM +0300, Laurent Pinchart wrote: >>> Debian uses an email based bug tracker and you know what? Most = people >>> avoid it like a plague. It's a hell on earth to use. Ubunutu's = Launchpad >>> which looks and feels like Bugzilla is a hundred times more popular. >>=20 >> It would be pretty sad if the only options we could come up with for = bug >> tracking would be either popular with reporters and ignored by >> maintainers, or the other way around. Ideally we wouldn't have to = decide >> which of those two classes of users to prioritize, but I fear that, >> given resource starvation, we'll have to make a decision there that = will >> be unpopular with one of the two sides. >=20 > Funny thing. I've largely given up on getting any kind of useful bug > report from Launchpad, so I've largely ignored it. In contast, the > bug reports I get for e2fsprogs from Debian are generally far more > actionable, with bug reports that have all of the data so I can > actually root cause the problem, and help the user. Yeah, this all comes down to personal preference and experience. For = instance, that hasn=E2=80=99t been my experience and I happen to like = Launchpad=E2=80=99s layout for reports, but I can see why you=E2=80=99d = feel that way. (Different roles, different experiences, so-to-speak.) > So Launchpad may be pretty, but perhaps because of selection bias, the > bug reports I've seen there are generally a waste of my time, and if > I'm going to choose which users I'm going to help for ***free***, it's > going to be the one which is far less frustrating to me as the > volunteer. Yep, valid point there.=20 > "100 times more popular" is not necessarily a feature if what we get > is 1000 times the noise. I mean, I get it. And, obviously, something like Launchpad isn=E2=80=99t = going to scale the way that it needs to in order for it to work for = this. =20 Not everyone is going to like whatever solution is put in place, if = there=E2=80=99s even any solution put in place: there will always be = complaints from folks. *Sigh.* -srw