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Howlett" To: David Hildenbrand Cc: Yafang Shao , akpm@linux-foundation.org, ziy@nvidia.com, baolin.wang@linux.alibaba.com, lorenzo.stoakes@oracle.com, npache@redhat.com, ryan.roberts@arm.com, dev.jain@arm.com, hannes@cmpxchg.org, usamaarif642@gmail.com, gutierrez.asier@huawei-partners.com, willy@infradead.org, ast@kernel.org, daniel@iogearbox.net, andrii@kernel.org, bpf@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v2 0/5] mm, bpf: BPF based THP adjustment Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: "Liam R. 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List-Unsubscribe: * David Hildenbrand [250526 12:51]: > On 26.05.25 17:54, Liam R. Howlett wrote: > > * Liam R. Howlett [250526 10:54]: > > > * David Hildenbrand [250526 06:49]: > > > > On 26.05.25 11:37, Yafang Shao wrote: > > > > > On Mon, May 26, 2025 at 4:14=E2=80=AFPM David Hildenbrand wrote: > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > Let=E2=80=99s summarize the current state of the discussion a= nd identify how > > > > > > > to move forward. > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > - Global-Only Control is Not Viable > > > > > > > We all seem to agree that a global-only control for THP is un= wise. In > > > > > > > practice, some workloads benefit from THP while others do not= , so a > > > > > > > one-size-fits-all approach doesn=E2=80=99t work. > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > - Should We Use "Always" or "Madvise"? > > > > > > > I suspect no one would choose 'always' in its current state. = ;) > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > IIRC, RHEL9 has the default set to "always" for a long time. > > > > >=20 > > > > > good to know. > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > I guess it really depends on how different the workloads are th= at you > > > > > > are running on the same machine. > > > > >=20 > > > > > Correct. If we want to enable THP for specific workloads without > > > > > modifying the kernel, we must isolate them on dedicated servers. > > > > > However, this approach wastes resources and is not an acceptable > > > > > solution. > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > Both Lorenzo and David propose relying on the madvise mode= . However,> > > > > > > since madvise is an unprivileged userspace mechanism, any user = can > > > > > > > freely adjust their THP policy. This makes fine-grained contr= ol > > > > > > > impossible without breaking userspace compatibility=E2=80=94a= n undesirable > > > > > > > tradeoff. > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > If required, we could look into a "sealing" mechanism, that wou= ld > > > > > > essentially lock modification attempts performed by the process= (i.e., > > > > > > MADV_HUGEPAGE). > > > > >=20 > > > > > If we don=E2=80=99t introduce a new THP mode and instead rely sol= ely on > > > > > madvise, the "sealing" mechanism could either violate the intende= d > > > > > semantics of madvise(), or simply break madvise() entirely, right= ? > > > >=20 > > > > We would have to be a bit careful, yes. > > > >=20 > > > > Errors from MADV_HUGEPAGE/MADV_NOHUGEPAGE are often ignored, becaus= e these > > > > options also fail with -EINVAL on kernels without THP support. > > > >=20 > > > > Ignoring MADV_NOHUGEPAGE can be problematic with userfaultfd. > > > >=20 > > > > What you likely really want to do is seal when you configured > > > > MADV_NOHUGEPAGE to be the default, and fail MADV_HUGEPAGE later. > >=20 > > I am also not entirely sure how sealing a non-existing vma would work. > > We'd have to seal the default flags, but sealing is one way and this > > surely shouldn't be one way? >=20 > You probably have mseal() in mind. Just like we wouldn't be using > madvise(), we also wouldn't be using mseal(). yes, I do - but mostly in terms of the language used and not the code as that can't be used here. Do we use the term seal somewhere that allows undoing the sealed thing? I'm _really_ hoping we don't, but am almost sure you're going to say we do. >=20 > It could be a simple mctrl()/whatever option/flag to set the default and = no > longer allow changing the default and per-VMA flags, unless CAP_SYS_ADMIN= or > sth like that. Ah... okay, as long as we have testing I guess. I can see that getting confusing. Cheers, Liam