From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2131AC432BE for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 19:46:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BF83610A7 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 19:46:37 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 mail.kernel.org 9BF83610A7 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=intel.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) id EB1376B0073; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 40) id E38FC6B0074; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:46:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: int-list-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 63042) id D00966B0075; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:46:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: linux-mm@kvack.org Received: from forelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0131.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.131]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2B496B0073 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpin21.hostedemail.com (10.5.19.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.19.251]) by forelay02.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC1022AB8 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 19:46:36 +0000 (UTC) X-FDA: 78460203192.21.1EEB62D Received: from mga02.intel.com (mga02.intel.com [134.134.136.20]) by imf15.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC62D006308 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 19:46:35 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="6200,9189,10072"; a="202161961" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.84,310,1620716400"; d="scan'208";a="202161961" Received: from orsmga001.jf.intel.com ([10.7.209.18]) by orsmga101.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 10 Aug 2021 12:46:33 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.84,310,1620716400"; d="scan'208";a="503247620" Received: from chdubay-mobl1.amr.corp.intel.com (HELO [10.212.234.193]) ([10.212.234.193]) by orsmga001-auth.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 10 Aug 2021 12:46:32 -0700 Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/5] mm: Add support for unaccepted memory To: Andi Kleen , "Kirill A. Shutemov" , Borislav Petkov , Andy Lutomirski , Sean Christopherson , Andrew Morton , Joerg Roedel Cc: Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan , David Rientjes , Vlastimil Babka , Tom Lendacky , Thomas Gleixner , Peter Zijlstra , Paolo Bonzini , Ingo Molnar , Varad Gautam , Dario Faggioli , x86@kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-coco@lists.linux.dev, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "Kirill A. Shutemov" References: <20210810062626.1012-1-kirill.shutemov@linux.intel.com> <20210810062626.1012-2-kirill.shutemov@linux.intel.com> <9748c07c-4e59-89d0-f425-c57f778d1b42@linux.intel.com> <17b6a3a3-bd7d-f57e-8762-96258b16247a@intel.com> <796a4b20-7fa3-3086-efa0-2f728f35ae06@linux.intel.com> From: Dave Hansen Autocrypt: addr=dave.hansen@intel.com; keydata= xsFNBE6HMP0BEADIMA3XYkQfF3dwHlj58Yjsc4E5y5G67cfbt8dvaUq2fx1lR0K9h1bOI6fC oAiUXvGAOxPDsB/P6UEOISPpLl5IuYsSwAeZGkdQ5g6m1xq7AlDJQZddhr/1DC/nMVa/2BoY 2UnKuZuSBu7lgOE193+7Uks3416N2hTkyKUSNkduyoZ9F5twiBhxPJwPtn/wnch6n5RsoXsb ygOEDxLEsSk/7eyFycjE+btUtAWZtx+HseyaGfqkZK0Z9bT1lsaHecmB203xShwCPT49Blxz VOab8668QpaEOdLGhtvrVYVK7x4skyT3nGWcgDCl5/Vp3TWA4K+IofwvXzX2ON/Mj7aQwf5W iC+3nWC7q0uxKwwsddJ0Nu+dpA/UORQWa1NiAftEoSpk5+nUUi0WE+5DRm0H+TXKBWMGNCFn c6+EKg5zQaa8KqymHcOrSXNPmzJuXvDQ8uj2J8XuzCZfK4uy1+YdIr0yyEMI7mdh4KX50LO1 pmowEqDh7dLShTOif/7UtQYrzYq9cPnjU2ZW4qd5Qz2joSGTG9eCXLz5PRe5SqHxv6ljk8mb ApNuY7bOXO/A7T2j5RwXIlcmssqIjBcxsRRoIbpCwWWGjkYjzYCjgsNFL6rt4OL11OUF37wL QcTl7fbCGv53KfKPdYD5hcbguLKi/aCccJK18ZwNjFhqr4MliQARAQABzShEYXZpZCBDaHJp c3RvcGhlciBIYW5zZW4gPGRhdmVAc3I3MS5uZXQ+wsF7BBMBAgAlAhsDBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJ CgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCTo3k0QIZAQAKCRBoNZUwcMmSsMO2D/421Xg8pimb9mPzM5N7khT0 2MCnaGssU1T59YPE25kYdx2HntwdO0JA27Wn9xx5zYijOe6B21ufrvsyv42auCO85+oFJWfE K2R/IpLle09GDx5tcEmMAHX6KSxpHmGuJmUPibHVbfep2aCh9lKaDqQR07gXXWK5/yU1Dx0r VVFRaHTasp9fZ9AmY4K9/BSA3VkQ8v3OrxNty3OdsrmTTzO91YszpdbjjEFZK53zXy6tUD2d e1i0kBBS6NLAAsqEtneplz88T/v7MpLmpY30N9gQU3QyRC50jJ7LU9RazMjUQY1WohVsR56d ORqFxS8ChhyJs7BI34vQusYHDTp6PnZHUppb9WIzjeWlC7Jc8lSBDlEWodmqQQgp5+6AfhTD kDv1a+W5+ncq+Uo63WHRiCPuyt4di4/0zo28RVcjtzlGBZtmz2EIC3vUfmoZbO/Gn6EKbYAn rzz3iU/JWV8DwQ+sZSGu0HmvYMt6t5SmqWQo/hyHtA7uF5Wxtu1lCgolSQw4t49ZuOyOnQi5 f8R3nE7lpVCSF1TT+h8kMvFPv3VG7KunyjHr3sEptYxQs4VRxqeirSuyBv1TyxT+LdTm6j4a mulOWf+YtFRAgIYyyN5YOepDEBv4LUM8Tz98lZiNMlFyRMNrsLV6Pv6SxhrMxbT6TNVS5D+6 UorTLotDZKp5+M7BTQRUY85qARAAsgMW71BIXRgxjYNCYQ3Xs8k3TfAvQRbHccky50h99TUY sqdULbsb3KhmY29raw1bgmyM0a4DGS1YKN7qazCDsdQlxIJp9t2YYdBKXVRzPCCsfWe1dK/q 66UVhRPP8EGZ4CmFYuPTxqGY+dGRInxCeap/xzbKdvmPm01Iw3YFjAE4PQ4hTMr/H76KoDbD cq62U50oKC83ca/PRRh2QqEqACvIH4BR7jueAZSPEDnzwxvVgzyeuhwqHY05QRK/wsKuhq7s UuYtmN92Fasbxbw2tbVLZfoidklikvZAmotg0dwcFTjSRGEg0Gr3p/xBzJWNavFZZ95Rj7Et db0lCt0HDSY5q4GMR+SrFbH+jzUY/ZqfGdZCBqo0cdPPp58krVgtIGR+ja2Mkva6ah94/oQN lnCOw3udS+Eb/aRcM6detZr7XOngvxsWolBrhwTQFT9D2NH6ryAuvKd6yyAFt3/e7r+HHtkU kOy27D7IpjngqP+b4EumELI/NxPgIqT69PQmo9IZaI/oRaKorYnDaZrMXViqDrFdD37XELwQ gmLoSm2VfbOYY7fap/AhPOgOYOSqg3/Nxcapv71yoBzRRxOc4FxmZ65mn+q3rEM27yRztBW9 AnCKIc66T2i92HqXCw6AgoBJRjBkI3QnEkPgohQkZdAb8o9WGVKpfmZKbYBo4pEAEQEAAcLB XwQYAQIACQUCVGPOagIbDAAKCRBoNZUwcMmSsJeCEACCh7P/aaOLKWQxcnw47p4phIVR6pVL e4IEdR7Jf7ZL00s3vKSNT+nRqdl1ugJx9Ymsp8kXKMk9GSfmZpuMQB9c6io1qZc6nW/3TtvK pNGz7KPPtaDzvKA4S5tfrWPnDr7n15AU5vsIZvgMjU42gkbemkjJwP0B1RkifIK60yQqAAlT YZ14P0dIPdIPIlfEPiAWcg5BtLQU4Wg3cNQdpWrCJ1E3m/RIlXy/2Y3YOVVohfSy+4kvvYU3 lXUdPb04UPw4VWwjcVZPg7cgR7Izion61bGHqVqURgSALt2yvHl7cr68NYoFkzbNsGsye9ft M9ozM23JSgMkRylPSXTeh5JIK9pz2+etco3AfLCKtaRVysjvpysukmWMTrx8QnI5Nn5MOlJj 1Ov4/50JY9pXzgIDVSrgy6LYSMc4vKZ3QfCY7ipLRORyalFDF3j5AGCMRENJjHPD6O7bl3Xo 4DzMID+8eucbXxKiNEbs21IqBZbbKdY1GkcEGTE7AnkA3Y6YB7I/j9mQ3hCgm5muJuhM/2Fr OPsw5tV/LmQ5GXH0JQ/TZXWygyRFyyI2FqNTx4WHqUn3yFj8rwTAU1tluRUYyeLy0ayUlKBH ybj0N71vWO936MqP6haFERzuPAIpxj2ezwu0xb1GjTk4ynna6h5GjnKgdfOWoRtoWndMZxbA z5cecg== Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 12:46:30 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <796a4b20-7fa3-3086-efa0-2f728f35ae06@linux.intel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Authentication-Results: imf15.hostedemail.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=intel.com (policy=none); spf=none (imf15.hostedemail.com: domain of dave.hansen@intel.com has no SPF policy when checking 134.134.136.20) smtp.mailfrom=dave.hansen@intel.com X-Stat-Signature: ikpgh8n4hxdxkhuowmefkf5e7aa74fy7 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4DC62D006308 X-Rspamd-Server: rspam01 X-HE-Tag: 1628624795-112622 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: On 8/10/21 12:23 PM, Andi Kleen wrote: >> But, not everyone is going to agree with me. >=20 > Both the Intel TDX and the AMD SEV side independently came to opposite > conclusions. In general people care a lot about boot time of VM guests. I was also saying that getting to userspace fast is important to me. Almost everyone agrees there. >> This also begs the question of how folks know when this "blip" is over= . >> =C2=A0 Do we have a counter for offline pages?=C2=A0 Is there any way = to force page >> acceptance?=C2=A0 Or, are we just stuck allocating a bunch of memory t= o warm >> up the system? >> >> How do folks who care about these new blips avoid them? >=20 > It's not different than any other warmup. At warmup time you always hav= e > lots of blips until the working set stabilizes. For example in > virtualization first touch of a new page is usually an EPT violation > handled to the host. Or in the native case you may need to do IO or fre= e > memory. Everybody who based their critical latency percentiles around a > warming up process would be foolish, the picture would be completely > distorted. >=20 > So the basic operation is adding some overhead, but I don't think > anything is that unusual compared to the state of the art. Except that today, you can totally avoid the allocation latency (not sure about the EPT violation/fill latency) from things like QEMU's -mem-prealloc. > Now perhaps the locking might be a problem if the other operations all > run in parallel, causing unnecessary serialization If that's really a > problem I guess we can optimize later. I don't think there's anything > fundamental about the current locking. These boot blips are not the biggest issue in the world. But, it is fully under the guest's control and I think the guest has some responsibility to provide *some* mitigation for it. 1. Do background acceptance, as opposed to relying 100% on demand-driven acceptance. Guarantees a limited window in which blips can occur. 2. Do acceptance based on user input, like from sysfs. 3. Add a command-line argument to accept everything up front, or at least before userspace runs. 4. Add some statistic for how much unaccepted memory remains. I can think of at least four ways we could mitigate it. A sysfs statistic file would probably take ~30 lines of code to loop over the bitmap. A command-line option would probably be <10 lines of code to just short-circuit the bitmap and accept everything up front. A file to force acceptance would probably be pretty quick too. Nothing there seem too onerous.