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([2a02:8070:4688:86a0::a40b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-43b736f8034sm63278725e9.4.2025.02.28.07.10.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Feb 2025 07:10:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2025 16:10:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/2] SKSM: Synchronous Kernel Samepage Merging To: Sean Christopherson Cc: Linus Torvalds , Mathieu Desnoyers , Andrew Morton , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Matthew Wilcox , Olivier Dion , linux-mm@kvack.org References: <20250228023043.83726-1-mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> <8524caa9-e1f6-4411-b86b-d9457ddb8007@efficios.com> <029759d4-f7b2-4ec6-b5d0-7c8a1c0fbd80@redhat.com> From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl8Ox4kFCRKpKXgACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1oHcA//a6Tj7SBNjFNM1iNhWUo1lxAja0lpSodSnB2g4FCZ4R61SBR4l/psBL73xktp rDHrx4aSpwkRP6Epu6mLvhlfjmkRG4OynJ5HG1gfv7RJJfnUdUM1z5kdS8JBrOhMJS2c/gPf wv1TGRq2XdMPnfY2o0CxRqpcLkx4vBODvJGl2mQyJF/gPepdDfcT8/PY9BJ7FL6Hrq1gnAo4 3Iv9qV0JiT2wmZciNyYQhmA1V6dyTRiQ4YAc31zOo2IM+xisPzeSHgw3ONY/XhYvfZ9r7W1l pNQdc2G+o4Di9NPFHQQhDw3YTRR1opJaTlRDzxYxzU6ZnUUBghxt9cwUWTpfCktkMZiPSDGd KgQBjnweV2jw9UOTxjb4LXqDjmSNkjDdQUOU69jGMUXgihvo4zhYcMX8F5gWdRtMR7DzW/YE BgVcyxNkMIXoY1aYj6npHYiNQesQlqjU6azjbH70/SXKM5tNRplgW8TNprMDuntdvV9wNkFs 9TyM02V5aWxFfI42+aivc4KEw69SE9KXwC7FSf5wXzuTot97N9Phj/Z3+jx443jo2NR34XgF 89cct7wJMjOF7bBefo0fPPZQuIma0Zym71cP61OP/i11ahNye6HGKfxGCOcs5wW9kRQEk8P9 M/k2wt3mt/fCQnuP/mWutNPt95w9wSsUyATLmtNrwccz63XOwU0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCXw7HsgUJEqkpoQAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWrrpD/4qS3dyVRxDcDHIlmguXjC1Q5tZTwNB boaBTPHSy/Nksu0eY7x6HfQJ3xajVH32Ms6t1trDQmPx2iP5+7iDsb7OKAb5eOS8h+BEBDeq 3ecsQDv0fFJOA9ag5O3LLNk+3x3q7e0uo06XMaY7UHS341ozXUUI7wC7iKfoUTv03iO9El5f XpNMx/YrIMduZ2+nd9Di7o5+KIwlb2mAB9sTNHdMrXesX8eBL6T9b+MZJk+mZuPxKNVfEQMQ a5SxUEADIPQTPNvBewdeI80yeOCrN+Zzwy/Mrx9EPeu59Y5vSJOx/z6OUImD/GhX7Xvkt3kq Er5KTrJz3++B6SH9pum9PuoE/k+nntJkNMmQpR4MCBaV/J9gIOPGodDKnjdng+mXliF3Ptu6 3oxc2RCyGzTlxyMwuc2U5Q7KtUNTdDe8T0uE+9b8BLMVQDDfJjqY0VVqSUwImzTDLX9S4g/8 kC4HRcclk8hpyhY2jKGluZO0awwTIMgVEzmTyBphDg/Gx7dZU1Xf8HFuE+UZ5UDHDTnwgv7E th6RC9+WrhDNspZ9fJjKWRbveQgUFCpe1sa77LAw+XFrKmBHXp9ZVIe90RMe2tRL06BGiRZr jPrnvUsUUsjRoRNJjKKA/REq+sAnhkNPPZ/NNMjaZ5b8Tovi8C0tmxiCHaQYqj7G2rgnT0kt WNyWQQ== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-MFC-PROC-ID: rPacqEmONcZn698B48HrZnOtP_uUnwKODyNATjJyOxY_1740755427 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Stat-Signature: zuqcha7msncx9qartre33k49zu73jtc1 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DD89EC0005 X-Rspamd-Server: rspam06 X-Rspam-User: X-HE-Tag: 1740755430-999822 X-HE-Meta: U2FsdGVkX18l7+zS6e7KABgbuFbBS6DiiRnb3SUSDFLwxN9mzjbaL5blr5GSL50roOKFjEhH8bTtGTJKo4SquaAEYnt31YkCINxk6yQPgXSJN46IC1Q1haPBZnECKPvMhgz4kqH3rzkKD1P3aJY62ScPgh9m1UKUrHTNmHeOkzK7gk7Z8EVevP58np5P5sFFSZOBzNpYMVNFalBH3NvtfBmIt1fp6oJgirrlfgzx6HjQLPQKpFqkOG5sWCZPr7qHrKAK7gWHsYiXc5zuBKQoVfoyb8U5rhSeUovMN8T9jLF3QRttMmEptl8eEmMnJ9+sAcf07c3Oo7UItBTOmB7vIAnQrJYFdrnyI4OSSwsOUAFkcTK/QZJKg4RCLFw/TTuV1YNJbuleDzrEgpuOiovfS/1NePK441IbAiXTeXvYouRSaFcL/GtoPiAx06gcOKOZKlpJ3SBz0rbIa3fmXmFVriH8zCsZrr8Dd/3kHJdlgXlEYaEyu4TbvYr8+ut8AIh4J1mDARQbdRX6rjorgqrCvSuJlZz1R04oDM1qie5P6tG5uVVg2DSIm0INAbTd2w67OJRml7wqqpeHo9xlTAg2AKbVSKlXoq38uADdmvGbBHHF1PePOpH7MRzqDiif0F0ysSHc/19qdrABu9zhhSrpYIJGeEFR9UN1H2PFfs6GbTrSJH0Gpnxfl+Jge/xvNqi3azwBSW9WdWqVdUjMLslHRAYBNsbprqqfkH5M84ulFrDJjxaxMOF3iOjptHqJWDdZYEH0jWUt8lM+F+PonJ2t659DUXJn6il2bfYabClx+GLyUsfsUK18ahQMjVOy2spyUCPSlRPNVZGkWX3j9K9oR5lXQZ3Nv+cBVTfSjK7ZKhl4d3qaIQ45EupO5KwW37nRQnphB4zOpjvPQ1Vd3UHkILfFuKIvgTl6Vas57TmhoMchjy/qDBs5YQfZKk8VKvPn6bLjE1nxOXqQ5VBwbHX 0ewJDaay 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 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 28.02.25 15:59, Sean Christopherson wrote: > On Fri, Feb 28, 2025, David Hildenbrand wrote: >> On 28.02.25 06:17, Linus Torvalds wrote: >>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2025 at 19:03, Mathieu Desnoyers >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I'd be fine with SKSM replacing KSM entirely. However, I don't >>>> think we should try to re-implement the existing KSM userspace ABIs >>>> over SKSM. >>> >>> No, absolutely. The only point (for me) for your new synchronous one >>> would be if it replaced the kernel thread async scanning, which would >>> make the old user space interface basically pointless. >>> >>> But I don't actually know who uses KSM right now. My reaction really >>> comes from a "it's not nice code in the kernel", not from any actual >>> knowledge of the users. >>> >>> Maybe it works really well in some cloud VM environment, and we're >>> stuck with it forever. >> >> Exactly that; and besides the VM use-case, lately people stated using it in >> the context of interpreters (IIRC inside Meta) quite successfully as well. > > Does Red Hat (or any other KVM supporters) actually recommend using KSM for VMs > in cloud environments? Private clouds yes, that's where it is most commonly used for. I would assume that nobody for For example, there is some older documentation here: https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_linux/6/html/virtualization_administration_guide/chap-ksm#chap-KSM which touches on the security aspects: "The page deduplication technology (used also by the KSM implementation) may introduce side channels that could potentially be used to leak information across multiple guests. In case this is a concern, KSM can be disabled on a per-guest basis." > > The security implications of scanning guest memory and having co-tenant VMs share > mappings (should) make it a complete non-starter for any scenario where VMs and/or > their workloads are owned by third parties. Jep. > > I can imagine there might be first-party use cases, but I would expect many/most > of those to be able to explicitly share mappings, which would provide far, far > better power and performance characteristics. Note that KSM can be very efficient when you have multiple VMs running the same kernel,executable,libraries etc. If my memory doesn't trick me, that's precisely for what it was originally invented, and how it is getting used today in the context of VMs. For example, QEMU will mark all guest memory is mergeable using MADV, to limit the deduplicaton to guest RAM only. -- Cheers, David / dhildenb