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Petersen" , Luis Chamberlain CC: James Bottomley , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Javier_Gonz=E1lez?= , Matthew Wilcox , Theodore Ts'o , Hannes Reinecke , Keith Busch , Pankaj Raghav , Daniel Gomez , "lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org" , "linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-mm@kvack.org" , "linux-block@vger.kernel.org" Subject: RE: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Cloud storage optimizations Thread-Topic: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Cloud storage optimizations Thread-Index: AQHZUswbWM8PXXLn2UKrVhzh6Ch5Aa7y9q84gAAuGYA= Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 01:16:05 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [105.128.2.176] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrKKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsWy7djXc7rXWrhSDE690LTYs2gSk8XGfg6L SYeuMVrsvaVtsWfvSRaLe2v+s1rse72X2WL58X9MFjcmPGW0aO35yW7x+8ccNgduj2mTTrF5 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 np4vB+zx 0Jab9zWoTNjU81kwxiC6q7vMdgbPJwEwBOf2g+bku3uLfgfCXSSLUe0zNI7g/DONmk3au3Ld0QOohfds= X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin K. Petersen [mailto:martin.petersen@oracle.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 2:28 PM > To: Luis Chamberlain > Cc: James Bottomley ; Dan > Helmick ; Martin K. Petersen > ; Javier Gonz=E1lez > ; Matthew Wilcox ; > Theodore Ts'o ; Hannes Reinecke ; Keith > Busch ; Pankaj Raghav ; > Daniel Gomez ; lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org; > linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org; linux-mm@kvack.org; linux- > block@vger.kernel.org > Subject: Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Cloud storage optimizations >=20 >=20 > Luis, >=20 > > A big future question is of course how / when to use these for > > filesystems. Should there be, for instance a 'mkfs --optimal-bs' or > > something which may look whatever hints the media uses ? Or do we just > > leaves the magic incantations to the admins? >=20 > mkfs already considers the reported queue limits (for the filesystems mos= t > people use, anyway). >=20 > The problem is mainly that the devices don't report them. At least not ve= ry > often in the NVMe space. For SCSI devices, reporting these parameters is > quite common. >=20 > -- > Martin K. Petersen Oracle Linux Engineering Support for the NVMe Optimal Performance parameters is increasing in the ve= ndor ecosystem. Customers are requiring this more and more from the vendor= s. For example, the OCP DC NVMe SSD spec has NVMe-AD-2 and NVMe-OPT-7 [1].= Momentum is continuing as Optimal Read parameters were recently added to = NVMe too. More companies adding these parameters as a drive requirement to= drive vendors would definitely help the momentum further. =20 I think there has been confusion among the vendors in the past on how to se= t various values for the best Host behavior. There are multiple (sometimes= minor) inflection points in the performance of a drive. Sure. 4KB is too= small to report by the drive, but shall we report our 16KB, 128KB, or some= other inflection? How big of a value can we push this? We would always f= avor the bigger number. =20 There are benefits for both Host and Drive (HDD and SSD) to have larger IOs= . Even if you have a drive reporting incorrect optimal parameters today, o= ne can incubate the SW changes with larger IOs. If nothing else, you'll in= stantly save on the overheads of communicating the higher number of command= s. Further doing an IO sized to be a multiple of the optimal parameters is= also optimal. Enabling anything in the range 16KB - 64KB would likely be = a great start. =20 [1] https://www.opencompute.org/documents/datacenter-nvme-ssd-specification= -v2-0r21-pdf Dan