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Howlett" To: Kiryl Shutsemau Cc: Dave Hansen , lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, x86@kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Morton , David Hildenbrand , Thomas Gleixner , Ingo Molnar , Borislav Petkov , Dave Hansen , Lorenzo Stoakes , Mike Rapoport , Matthew Wilcox , Johannes Weiner , Usama Arif Subject: Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] 64k (or 16k) base page size on x86 Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: "Liam R. 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 WbvlJEfb 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Howlett wrote: > > * Kiryl Shutsemau [260219 17:05]: > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2026 at 09:08:57AM -0800, Dave Hansen wrote: > > > > On 2/19/26 07:08, Kiryl Shutsemau wrote: > > > > > - The order-0 page size cuts struct page overhead by a factor of 16. From > > > > > ~1.6% of RAM to ~0.1%; > > > > ... > > > > But, it will mostly be getting better performance at the _cost_ of > > > > consuming more RAM, not saving RAM. > > > > > > That's fair. > > > > > > The problem with struct page memory consumption is that it is static and > > > cannot be reclaimed. You pay the struct page tax no matter what. > > > > > > Page cache rounding overhead can be large, but a motivated userspace can > > > keep it under control by avoiding splitting a dataset into many small > > > files. And this memory is reclaimable. > > > > > > > But we are in reclaim a lot more these days. As I'm sure you are aware, > > we are trying to maximize the resources (both cpu and ram) of any > > machine powered on. Entering reclaim will consume the cpu time and will > > affect other tasks. > > > > Especially with multiple workload machines, the tendency is to have a > > primary focus with the lower desired work being killed, if necessary. > > Reducing the overhead just means more secondary tasks, or a bigger > > footprint of the ones already executing. > > > > Increasing the memory pressure will degrade the primary workload more > > frequently, even if we recover enough to avoid OOMing the secondary. > > > > While in the struct page tax world, the secondary task would be killed > > after a shorter (and less frequently executed) reclaim comes up short. > > So, I would think that we would be degrading the primary workload in an > > attempt to keep the secondary alive? Maybe I'm over-simplifying here? > > I am not sure I fully follow your point. > > Sizing tasks and scheduling tasks between machines is hard in general. > I don't think the balance between struct page tax and page cache > rounding overhead is going to be the primary factor. I think there are more trade offs than what you listed. It's still probably worth doing, but I wanted to know if you though that this would cause us to spend more time in reclaim, which seems to be implied above. So, another trade-off might be all the reclaim penalty being paid more frequently? ... Thanks, Liam