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Howlett" , Vlastimil Babka , Jann Horn , Pedro Falcato , linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Kees Cook , linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 2/5] mm/mseal: update madvise() logic Message-ID: References: <38ed372a-4b27-498e-bb3b-f95792bbbe27@lucifer.local> <9c861191-ac9e-4d26-b2a2-1facfa45de44@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9c861191-ac9e-4d26-b2a2-1facfa45de44@redhat.com> X-ClientProxiedBy: LO4P123CA0412.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:189::21) To DM4PR10MB8218.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:8:1cc::16) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DM4PR10MB8218:EE_|DM3PPF3AA48E9FD:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: a65abf63-9bee-4a96-44fd-08ddcb430078 X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|1800799024|7416014|376014|366016; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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U2FsdGVkX18w3uI2u0w/kua/yS3rCSsg5hVIiScjwJnMvSEKz0Vlk0AyoXJlIXR89Y8hjtgQybwLxEM9v631QUDpdHAjRBBFTO7anXrASj67iNOhmMsjKi8+hQvljzHIp0wPLMJmmf9l+ScBmExkLFUtGLRksCPwKm7OX7hSXjKYyrQWl6cACuZ8cgMGmwuaSUrktUvSfD2n2vKvkZh3pq7VWaS9OjzYhrtQSTe9e15zBrAv5qNl6TEyPtPDlVfY4jwN1Yx5Ywuu3D2KyJ9mWqzF2Zx5BNFY+FIMewmMzIv49lsaGAs3XEh3IUbItpUnT8e0UYqu7+Sg6xurqvsPCaIgz6IwSIYSkz87DyLBaVb0s7gRUFrrulIFZpcFK9jEEtwqGjpbiT+oVod0aOflX9MDZSORkURn/NfPmsqK0yAGiYhCoyktuwtLmaw5LJx4OmRXSX2UydeTtrb0mlRekPc3o478VOaEA76z8RcUo+QdbjqgZC0mm2ZK0opHzfI+rV0ZnUCEsdhhb5RLbyX6H0RdbMU6ow00jKenmB3l/L19vdoGpOSrIbIyWJBsSB2bg6X2Bz7bo0BMPrEjN1BPjBT/BhRwE2utbq7cYSbCYgjeQWEQSFIx6ELbXzcUzcd/1SSRJQVp7nJDmQQXaqKWZeVO2XHGS52O4YMCgea1SlyYS7neBqv2sYAG3C5N7g5dfM9J0tJ0WxU2jE8AWhgP4Pha1isnyB7nJKT2+DqjbOAAtif2xPRkKZ2u2A7dv3R0v4bkatMcV05ozuXekmpA802mJjKNvaDhBwTNO6Jbzl7t+dO99DIvQ8j7sgefe9wS5bANQveyS1mfYdVycVJlmvWzHcITn2jMD6wHi4bKWOuzR0c9bliS56X2+B36WSs+GTsCNSfXjCT2mkvG/RLdPgFiFmkCdw3CIgLH8GxYiAjWyfHcOYzLIH+xS/NGtNJpzFk2jSivTQXutAmuaFv Ct6MjhJ6 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 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Thu, Jul 24, 2025 at 11:53:52PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: > > > > > 4. We could ask applications to switch to non-destructive madvise, > > > like MADV_COLD or MADV_PAGEOUT. Or, another option is that we could > > > switch the kernel to use non-destructive madvise implicitly for > > > destructive madvise in suitable situations. > > > > Umm what? I don't understand your point. > > > > > 5. We could investigate more based on vma->anon_vma > > > > I have no idea what you mean by this. I am an rmap maintainer and have > > worked extensively with anon_vma, what's the point exactly? > > I think, the idea would be to add an additional anon_vma check: so if you > have a MAP_PRIVATE file mapping, you could still allow for MADV_DONTNEED if > you are sure that there are no anon folios in there. OK this is a more coherent explanation of what this means, thanks. In no other case are we checking if there is data there that is different from post-discard, so this would be inconsistent with other disallowed madvise() modes. Equally, to me setting mprotect(PROT_READ) then mseal()'ing is a contract, and adding a 'but we let you discard if we go check and it's fine' feels like really inconsistent semantics. We're dealing with a real edge-case scenario here of a MAP_PRIVATE mapping (which means you are essentially asking for anon) being intentionally marked read-only then sealed. I think it's _better_ to be clearer on this. > > If there is an anon_vma, the only way to find out is actually looking at the > page tables. > > To be completely precise, one would have to enlighten the zap logic to > refuse to zap if there is any anon folio there, and bail out. Yeah absolutely not this would be crazy, especially for such an edge case. I'm sure you agree :) > > -- > Cheers, > > David / dhildenb >