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[2003:d8:2f03:5b00:f549:a879:b2d3:73ee]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3a4efe6c738sm4174668f8f.24.2025.05.30.02.10.29 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 30 May 2025 02:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 May 2025 11:10:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/2] fix MADV_COLLAPSE issue if THP settings are disabled To: Ryan Roberts , Baolin Wang , akpm@linux-foundation.org, hughd@google.com Cc: lorenzo.stoakes@oracle.com, Liam.Howlett@oracle.com, npache@redhat.com, dev.jain@arm.com, ziy@nvidia.com, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org References: <05d60e72-3113-41f0-b81f-225397f06c81@arm.com> <9b1bac6c-fd9f-4dc1-8c94-c4da0cbb9e7f@arm.com> From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl8Ox4kFCRKpKXgACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1oHcA//a6Tj7SBNjFNM1iNhWUo1lxAja0lpSodSnB2g4FCZ4R61SBR4l/psBL73xktp rDHrx4aSpwkRP6Epu6mLvhlfjmkRG4OynJ5HG1gfv7RJJfnUdUM1z5kdS8JBrOhMJS2c/gPf wv1TGRq2XdMPnfY2o0CxRqpcLkx4vBODvJGl2mQyJF/gPepdDfcT8/PY9BJ7FL6Hrq1gnAo4 3Iv9qV0JiT2wmZciNyYQhmA1V6dyTRiQ4YAc31zOo2IM+xisPzeSHgw3ONY/XhYvfZ9r7W1l pNQdc2G+o4Di9NPFHQQhDw3YTRR1opJaTlRDzxYxzU6ZnUUBghxt9cwUWTpfCktkMZiPSDGd KgQBjnweV2jw9UOTxjb4LXqDjmSNkjDdQUOU69jGMUXgihvo4zhYcMX8F5gWdRtMR7DzW/YE BgVcyxNkMIXoY1aYj6npHYiNQesQlqjU6azjbH70/SXKM5tNRplgW8TNprMDuntdvV9wNkFs 9TyM02V5aWxFfI42+aivc4KEw69SE9KXwC7FSf5wXzuTot97N9Phj/Z3+jx443jo2NR34XgF 89cct7wJMjOF7bBefo0fPPZQuIma0Zym71cP61OP/i11ahNye6HGKfxGCOcs5wW9kRQEk8P9 M/k2wt3mt/fCQnuP/mWutNPt95w9wSsUyATLmtNrwccz63XOwU0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCXw7HsgUJEqkpoQAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWrrpD/4qS3dyVRxDcDHIlmguXjC1Q5tZTwNB boaBTPHSy/Nksu0eY7x6HfQJ3xajVH32Ms6t1trDQmPx2iP5+7iDsb7OKAb5eOS8h+BEBDeq 3ecsQDv0fFJOA9ag5O3LLNk+3x3q7e0uo06XMaY7UHS341ozXUUI7wC7iKfoUTv03iO9El5f XpNMx/YrIMduZ2+nd9Di7o5+KIwlb2mAB9sTNHdMrXesX8eBL6T9b+MZJk+mZuPxKNVfEQMQ a5SxUEADIPQTPNvBewdeI80yeOCrN+Zzwy/Mrx9EPeu59Y5vSJOx/z6OUImD/GhX7Xvkt3kq Er5KTrJz3++B6SH9pum9PuoE/k+nntJkNMmQpR4MCBaV/J9gIOPGodDKnjdng+mXliF3Ptu6 3oxc2RCyGzTlxyMwuc2U5Q7KtUNTdDe8T0uE+9b8BLMVQDDfJjqY0VVqSUwImzTDLX9S4g/8 kC4HRcclk8hpyhY2jKGluZO0awwTIMgVEzmTyBphDg/Gx7dZU1Xf8HFuE+UZ5UDHDTnwgv7E th6RC9+WrhDNspZ9fJjKWRbveQgUFCpe1sa77LAw+XFrKmBHXp9ZVIe90RMe2tRL06BGiRZr jPrnvUsUUsjRoRNJjKKA/REq+sAnhkNPPZ/NNMjaZ5b8Tovi8C0tmxiCHaQYqj7G2rgnT0kt WNyWQQ== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: <9b1bac6c-fd9f-4dc1-8c94-c4da0cbb9e7f@arm.com> X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-MFC-PROC-ID: 3GsQ0wLz7UbhdouWF0fyGw80Xxz1rioQ0DHHG8ppPlU_1748596232 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 73ADE180009 X-Stat-Signature: f739x87j1kc9dd3pkb4gan7eseah5fwu X-Rspam-User: X-Rspamd-Server: rspam07 X-HE-Tag: 1748596234-840495 X-HE-Meta: U2FsdGVkX1+/EX2TCmmpO1s1lCWTi8KRw/xTQ65+lAjS/epzKoSjifeVqj9Br83WX98X8YD7JdKEGAE0i6pviHu6gFf9O25hZeWLHQ2RPDg3q7OZI9d2Ldh7H+Znh+qCA5qdXcTRKV34iVv8VfRW29ulYRnSMURHWTmBRmAMC1Mcd47tn/WFW84Ge6dNWV5zB+x9PYlP1Bfm6G8wbbyHE48W1bJAFaW7PFL5LEXf7luR1X4ufZn56DsL4R2yKH4lnaGp08ePBzzl+W104EaNBCZSu7d4Ytf5L1gGULvyvGkWru4GInXaBwNurlKEJCt3bn9q4ofJfXekFe5GVK8wibSJp6bFrhY+omCLVgYiwUtKc7a9CmacoHHq7HEFGkFM22GIg9/0NmufVDEIimkUhEzuJjDOdbmZAWNbT/Pijz8mqtl2bI3XS96nePoxjknwxSq6Up5LGymCVKq2mB2btUleug71fHCE4TMReQJitS55AbmaBJrqW9qniyBYZKwN3G9YwZc/cVFs98qLxu36TzeDHxBGX31agDqsHByrnTthAq+MlKE4cmppmeQKkJWTfYoQn7Oz/yNxhxOV+izMxWQWOBrc7FiqwYFZIMqQH79scR5V3x6VBnYO/Jg4NcguUg88ly3RXFmr5AmIjGIccssJmvazZVLEOdqi6vAsruGy/0LaTqYF+79rWJLOYXbkI1NPEh4VL8E/8pqHYRr6kc0T4CTevqh1OV1CGjpKi1YhIRBWsF6IsWdeiYUGfMjMzrOOkztDVk3g44Si9B6IMuM0FbcxDpDhA0mKsRAvNjrCJCHNjtIqaTE6nRK6WGRYiAR6HPlPyuvkvf3UHt34RRYVe5bS+fy9nQFCrbUfQFSqmGMRjA26J9c9BMSTxZ3wSmR2VWinEZl8eF49eeC/gvNME8QdUUO9yvMv1ejGfu2oU+diOWZBTs0d7keCEr40E4c25R5/cRhOcIj4OAV 8YaryUjj ZyJUIjdZnZrrGcoNd8NFMuyf1tDFRQk5cLFHgs6K8vuiFRpVFWKlBFKeC4je+/YsVp0tioCcGntYO0meuUR26cE++R3qKbaaLi2mFPvfnfxFamfphxlPG1Ah/x06lmOb6ojhQpz0McI3GKWcFP6Pwod5Df6UDEjg1vWTBaJirB8ofEKYdeL/zobwOHmZkMaQBF4MTt1DNt7hbGJ0a0aZONeEWadBwUZM5sXSIcMzp7lp8mtmoTLrDmbAmRtcCOtI0ASC+7OFOSFFQ7zXWOOZwQcuIV3sm6vSktLjreMon7hP7IhcXAKuovpTykhPSPKnsTqxwxNA/JtgXE18ZHWsy13LBacvxjSMmkuxQU4EQKMv1u0z7HPdzMuH0QVaw0ndzVTSb47vjhj4bN6IZTuwR65034S1c6YqivhGM6xjoMcLMtACUeodJnRuCs8r27vhtJ3D8z7Ksq7sLFhk= X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 30.05.25 10:59, Ryan Roberts wrote: > On 30/05/2025 09:44, David Hildenbrand wrote: >> On 30.05.25 10:04, Ryan Roberts wrote: >>> On 29/05/2025 09:23, Baolin Wang wrote: >>>> As we discussed in the previous thread [1], the MADV_COLLAPSE will ignore >>>> the system-wide anon/shmem THP sysfs settings, which means that even though >>>> we have disabled the anon/shmem THP configuration, MADV_COLLAPSE will still >>>> attempt to collapse into a anon/shmem THP. This violates the rule we have >>>> agreed upon: never means never. This patch set will address this issue. >>> >>> This is a drive-by comment from me without having the previous context, but... >>> >>> Surely MADV_COLLAPSE *should* ignore the THP sysfs settings? It's a deliberate >>> user-initiated, synchonous request to use huge pages for a range of memory. >>> There is nothing *transparent* about it, it just happens to be implemented using >>> the same logic that THP uses. >>> >>> I always thought this was a deliberate design decision. >> >> If the admin said "never", then why should a user be able to overwrite that? > > Well my interpretation would be that the admin is saying never *transparently* > give anyone any hugepages; on balance it does more harm than good for my > workloads. The toggle is called transparent_hugepage/enabled, after all. I'd say it's "enabling transparent huge pages" not "transparently enabling huge pages". After all, these things are ... transparent huge pages. But yeah, it's confusing. > > Whereas MADV_COLLAPSE is deliberately applied to a specific region at an > opportune moment in time, presumably because the user knows that the region > *will* benefit and because that point in the execution is not sensitive to latency. Not sure if MADV_HUGEPAGE is really *that* different. > > I see them as logically separate. > >> >> The design decision I recall is that if VM_NOHUGEPAGE is set, we'll ignore that. >> Because that was set by the app itself (MADV_NOHUEPAGE). > > Hmm, ok. My instinct would have been the opposite; MADV_NOHUGEPAGE means "I > don't want the risk of latency spikes and memory bloat that THP can cause". Not > "ignore my explicit requests to MADV_COLLAPSE". > > But if that descision was already taken and that's the current behavior then I > agree we have an inconsistency with respect to the sysfs control. > > Perhaps we should be guided by real world usage - AIUI there is a cloud that > disables THP at system level today (Google?). The use case I am aware of for disabling it for debugging purposes. Saved us quite some headake in the past at customer sites for troubleshooting + workarounds ... Let's take a look at the man page: MADV_COLLAPSE is independent of any sysfs (see sysfs(5)) setting under /sys/kernel/mm/transparent_hugepage, both in terms of determining THP eligibility, and allocation semantics. I recall we discussed that it should ignore the max_ptes_none/swap/shared. But "any" setting would include "enable" ... -- Cheers, David / dhildenb