From: Amir Goldstein <amir73il@gmail.com>
To: Pankaj Raghav <pankaj.raghav@linux.dev>,
Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de>
Cc: linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org,
djwong@kernel.org, john.g.garry@oracle.com, willy@infradead.org,
hch@lst.de, ritesh.list@gmail.com, jack@suse.cz,
ojaswin@linux.ibm.com, Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@kernel.org>,
dchinner@redhat.com, Javier Gonzalez <javier.gonz@samsung.com>,
gost.dev@samsung.com, tytso@mit.edu, p.raghav@samsung.com,
vi.shah@samsung.com
Subject: Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Buffered atomic writes
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2026 11:01:57 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <aZGLhTvjmRVZNA8m@amir-ThinkPad-T480> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <d0c4d95b-8064-4a7e-996d-7ad40eb4976b@linux.dev>
On Fri, Feb 13, 2026 at 11:20:36AM +0100, Pankaj Raghav wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Atomic (untorn) writes for Direct I/O have successfully landed in kernel
> for ext4 and XFS[1][2]. However, extending this support to Buffered I/O
> remains a contentious topic, with previous discussions often stalling due to
> concerns about complexity versus utility.
>
> I would like to propose a session to discuss the concrete use cases for
> buffered atomic writes and if possible, talk about the outstanding
> architectural blockers blocking the current RFCs[3][4].
>
> ## Use Case:
>
> A recurring objection to buffered atomics is the lack of a convincing use
> case, with the argument that databases should simply migrate to direct I/O.
> We have been working with PostgreSQL developer Andres Freund, who has
> highlighted a specific architectural requirement where buffered I/O remains
> preferable in certain scenarios.
>
> While Postgres recently started to support direct I/O, optimal performance
> requires a large, statically configured user-space buffer pool. This becomes
> problematic when running many Postgres instances on the same hardware, a
> common deployment scenario. Statically partitioning RAM for direct I/O
> caches across many instances is inefficient compared to allowing the kernel
> page cache to dynamically balance memory pressure between instances.
>
> The other use case is using postgres as part of a larger workload on one
> instance. Using up enough memory for postgres' buffer pool to make DIO use
> viable is often not realistic, because some deployments require a lot of
> memory to cache database IO, while others need a lot of memory for
> non-database caching.
>
> Enabling atomic writes for this buffered workload would allow Postgres to
> disable full-page writes [5]. For direct I/O, this has shown to reduce
> transaction variability; for buffered I/O, we expect similar gains,
> alongside decreased WAL bandwidth and storage costs for WAL archival. As a
> side note, for most workloads full page writes occupy a significant portion
> of WAL volume.
>
> Andres has agreed to attend LSFMM this year to discuss these requirements.
>
Andres,
If you wish to attend LSFMM, please request an invite via the Google
form:
https://forms.gle/hUgiEksr8CA1migCA
Thanks,
Amir.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-02-15 9:02 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 38+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-02-13 10:20 Pankaj Raghav
2026-02-13 13:32 ` Ojaswin Mujoo
2026-02-16 9:52 ` Pankaj Raghav
2026-02-16 15:45 ` Andres Freund
2026-02-17 12:06 ` Jan Kara
2026-02-17 12:42 ` Pankaj Raghav
2026-02-17 16:21 ` Andres Freund
2026-02-18 1:04 ` Dave Chinner
2026-02-18 6:47 ` Christoph Hellwig
2026-02-18 23:42 ` Dave Chinner
2026-02-17 16:13 ` Andres Freund
2026-02-17 18:27 ` Ojaswin Mujoo
2026-02-17 18:42 ` Andres Freund
2026-02-18 17:37 ` Jan Kara
2026-02-18 21:04 ` Andres Freund
2026-02-19 0:32 ` Dave Chinner
2026-02-17 18:33 ` Ojaswin Mujoo
2026-02-17 17:20 ` Ojaswin Mujoo
2026-02-18 17:42 ` [Lsf-pc] " Jan Kara
2026-02-18 20:22 ` Ojaswin Mujoo
2026-02-16 11:38 ` Jan Kara
2026-02-16 13:18 ` Pankaj Raghav
2026-02-17 18:36 ` Ojaswin Mujoo
2026-02-16 15:57 ` Andres Freund
2026-02-17 18:39 ` Ojaswin Mujoo
2026-02-18 0:26 ` Dave Chinner
2026-02-18 6:49 ` Christoph Hellwig
2026-02-18 12:54 ` Ojaswin Mujoo
2026-02-15 9:01 ` Amir Goldstein [this message]
2026-02-17 5:51 ` Christoph Hellwig
2026-02-17 9:23 ` [Lsf-pc] " Amir Goldstein
2026-02-17 15:47 ` Andres Freund
2026-02-17 22:45 ` Dave Chinner
2026-02-18 4:10 ` Andres Freund
2026-02-18 6:53 ` Christoph Hellwig
2026-02-18 6:51 ` Christoph Hellwig
2026-02-20 10:08 ` Pankaj Raghav (Samsung)
2026-02-20 15:10 ` Christoph Hellwig
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=aZGLhTvjmRVZNA8m@amir-ThinkPad-T480 \
--to=amir73il@gmail.com \
--cc=andres@anarazel.de \
--cc=dchinner@redhat.com \
--cc=djwong@kernel.org \
--cc=gost.dev@samsung.com \
--cc=hch@lst.de \
--cc=jack@suse.cz \
--cc=javier.gonz@samsung.com \
--cc=john.g.garry@oracle.com \
--cc=linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-mm@kvack.org \
--cc=linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org \
--cc=mcgrof@kernel.org \
--cc=ojaswin@linux.ibm.com \
--cc=p.raghav@samsung.com \
--cc=pankaj.raghav@linux.dev \
--cc=ritesh.list@gmail.com \
--cc=tytso@mit.edu \
--cc=vi.shah@samsung.com \
--cc=willy@infradead.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox