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[96.255.20.138]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6a1803df08f44-878bb446e8esm164513976d6.18.2025.10.08.09.31.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 08 Oct 2025 09:31:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2025 12:31:22 -0400 From: Gregory Price To: David Hildenbrand Cc: Michal Hocko , linux-mm@kvack.org, corbet@lwn.net, muchun.song@linux.dev, osalvador@suse.de, akpm@linux-foundation.org, hannes@cmpxchg.org, laoar.shao@gmail.com, brauner@kernel.org, mclapinski@google.com, joel.granados@kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Mel Gorman , Alexandru Moise <00moses.alexander00@gmail.com>, Mike Kravetz , David Rientjes Subject: Re: [PATCH] Revert "mm, hugetlb: remove hugepages_treat_as_movable sysctl" Message-ID: References: <20251007214412.3832340-1-gourry@gourry.net> <402170e6-c49f-4d28-a010-eb253fc2f923@redhat.com> <271f9af4-695c-4aa5-9249-2d21ad3db76e@redhat.com> <83e33641-8c42-4341-8e6e-5c75d00f93b9@redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83e33641-8c42-4341-8e6e-5c75d00f93b9@redhat.com> X-Rspamd-Server: rspam12 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3A0901C001D X-Stat-Signature: o5ke9mr1sb5o53nh1ioau9jrfiyci9yu X-Rspam-User: X-HE-Tag: 1759941092-483647 X-HE-Meta: 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 ILY6gE6L LqL7FNBF97EMO0tP4iJmqEyIWNlBVhS3Bth0aZTw6leaEtNOaS9b89LxzjEP/jVPx2uJH4oP7U7uFqCsdDDBix54kxkM+18eHVjv40YjVu0mO84ssT4LCjy+hoJWM3zoi8qTg9GC/egJ/h4Evigr6Zbrd799GbinItvheW9cfBoLnLLdDSnfKa9spjhzbKbXW0sZ9sieLCynx0+e9haTHn2SMHTHyJi8NQz8Y5iOvubE9lAQg7oPkDjzZTiojIwJcDLtLJb8OP0zysftmgHupQNnXT52FMuQDP/RHRy5KIkieC1tlVnaF3IXJqYNPVmKVNu3bA3aafP8b+xJm0dBwUWW9uBZVomKdN6aI4SSiBaFzEDOb6vtASk0iGAtqg/n0rbW9zcSq9R5FSIkZ7vb2Q7FkNHNOmZSnSH+lJFsClJHUUYgaY8+OWuiC7MQaoxH9GAgj X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Wed, Oct 08, 2025 at 05:43:23PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: > On 08.10.25 17:23, Michal Hocko wrote: > > On Wed 08-10-25 17:14:26, David Hildenbrand wrote: > > > On 08.10.25 16:59, Michal Hocko wrote: > > > > yes, I do agree. This is just muddying the semantic of the zone. > > > > > > > > Maybe what we really want is to have a configurable zone rather than a > > > > very specific consumer of it instead. What do I mean by that? We clearly > > > > have physically (DMA, DMA32) and usability (NORMAL, MOVABLE) constrained > > > > zones. So rather than having a MOVABLE zone we can have a single zone > > > > $FOO_NAME zone with configurable attributes - like allocation > > > > constrains (kernel, user, movable, etc). Now that we can overlap zones > > > > this should allow for quite a lot flexibility. Implementation wise this > > > > would require some tricks as we have 2 zone types for potentially 3 > > > > different major usecases (kernel allocations, userspace reserved ranges > > > > without movability and movable allocations). I haven't thought this > > > > through completely and mostly throwing this as an idea (maybe won't > > > > work). Does that make sense? > > > I'd also considered something between NORMAL and MOVABLE, something like ZONE_NOKERNEL or ZONE_USER. But that seemed excessive. > > That is why I called it user allocations because those are supposed to > > be configured for userspace consumation and planned for that use. So you > > would get pretty much a guarantee that no kernel allocations will fall > > there. > > What could end up on it that would not already end up on ZONE_MOVABLE? I > guess long-term pinned pages, secretmem, guest_memfd, gigantic pages. > > Anything else? > > I'm not quite clear yet on the use case, though. If all the user allocations > end up fragmenting the memory, there is also not a lot of benefit to be had > from that zone long term. > The only real use case i've seen is exactly: - Don't want random GFP_KERNEL to land there - Might want it to be pinnable I think that covers what you've described above. But adding an entire zone felt a bit heavy handed. Allowing gigantic in movable seemed less - immediately - offensive. ~Gregory