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([2a09:80c0:192:0:5dac:bf3d:c41:c3e7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-4588e5e6232sm16822615e9.32.2025.07.29.02.29.29 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 29 Jul 2025 02:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2025 11:29:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [RFC] Disable auto_movable_ratio for selfhosted memmap To: Michal Hocko , Hannes Reinecke Cc: Oscar Salvador , linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Hannes Reinecke References: <2f24e725-cddb-41c5-ba87-783930efb2aa@redhat.com> <79919ace-9cd2-4600-9615-6dc26ba19e19@redhat.com> <3e88642f-3914-42b0-b864-4ad374b659b5@redhat.com> From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAmgsLPQFCRvGjuMACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1o0bxAAqYC7gTyGj5rZwvy1VesF6YoQncH0yI79lvXUYOX+Nngko4v4dTlOQvrd/vhb 02e9FtpA1CxgwdgIPFKIuXvdSyXAp0xXuIuRPQYbgNriQFkaBlHe9mSf8O09J3SCVa/5ezKM OLW/OONSV/Fr2VI1wxAYj3/Rb+U6rpzqIQ3Uh/5Rjmla6pTl7Z9/o1zKlVOX1SxVGSrlXhqt kwdbjdj/csSzoAbUF/duDuhyEl11/xStm/lBMzVuf3ZhV5SSgLAflLBo4l6mR5RolpPv5wad GpYS/hm7HsmEA0PBAPNb5DvZQ7vNaX23FlgylSXyv72UVsObHsu6pT4sfoxvJ5nJxvzGi69U s1uryvlAfS6E+D5ULrV35taTwSpcBAh0/RqRbV0mTc57vvAoXofBDcs3Z30IReFS34QSpjvl Hxbe7itHGuuhEVM1qmq2U72ezOQ7MzADbwCtn+yGeISQqeFn9QMAZVAkXsc9Wp0SW/WQKb76 FkSRalBZcc2vXM0VqhFVzTb6iNqYXqVKyuPKwhBunhTt6XnIfhpRgqveCPNIasSX05VQR6/a OBHZX3seTikp7A1z9iZIsdtJxB88dGkpeMj6qJ5RLzUsPUVPodEcz1B5aTEbYK6428H8MeLq NFPwmknOlDzQNC6RND8Ez7YEhzqvw7263MojcmmPcLelYbfOwU0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCaCwtJQUJG8aPFAAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWlDnD/4k2TW+HyOOOePVm23F5HOhNNd7nNv3 Vq2cLcW1DteHUdxMO0X+zqrKDHI5hgnE/E2QH9jyV8mB8l/ndElobciaJcbl1cM43vVzPIWn 01vW62oxUNtEvzLLxGLPTrnMxWdZgxr7ACCWKUnMGE2E8eca0cT2pnIJoQRz242xqe/nYxBB /BAK+dsxHIfcQzl88G83oaO7vb7s/cWMYRKOg+WIgp0MJ8DO2IU5JmUtyJB+V3YzzM4cMic3 bNn8nHjTWw/9+QQ5vg3TXHZ5XMu9mtfw2La3bHJ6AybL0DvEkdGxk6YHqJVEukciLMWDWqQQ RtbBhqcprgUxipNvdn9KwNpGciM+hNtM9kf9gt0fjv79l/FiSw6KbCPX9b636GzgNy0Ev2UV m00EtcpRXXMlEpbP4V947ufWVK2Mz7RFUfU4+ETDd1scMQDHzrXItryHLZWhopPI4Z+ps0rB CQHfSpl+wG4XbJJu1D8/Ww3FsO42TMFrNr2/cmqwuUZ0a0uxrpkNYrsGjkEu7a+9MheyTzcm vyU2knz5/stkTN2LKz5REqOe24oRnypjpAfaoxRYXs+F8wml519InWlwCra49IUSxD1hXPxO WBe5lqcozu9LpNDH/brVSzHCSb7vjNGvvSVESDuoiHK8gNlf0v+epy5WYd7CGAgODPvDShGN g3eXuA== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-MFC-PROC-ID: -Ygxmw9wAtTHI-c2jZ7OYl-W-9JzxYBGi7eCpAvgP58_1753781371 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Stat-Signature: eycqcquhni11m5u9fc1px6e6j3xjcnky X-Rspam-User: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5E26B1C000B X-Rspamd-Server: rspam02 X-HE-Tag: 1753781374-147235 X-HE-Meta: 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 rz5J/H0P ealzepcAFKv2vjBpZhHMoV/SfuscHnfsmN5FDCP2HQh9alCHDIbCV2XZ3wtJacrudVpd0VALoecZyYzSJKR1Fs3Qg/6TcfSeIbpouynmKlSvvLxsVDvfSFLPN/w== X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 29.07.25 11:19, Michal Hocko wrote: > On Tue 29-07-25 09:24:37, Hannes Reinecke wrote: >> On 7/28/25 15:08, David Hildenbrand wrote: >>> On 28.07.25 15:06, Michal Hocko wrote: >>>> On Mon 28-07-25 11:37:46, Hannes Reinecke wrote: >>>>> On 7/28/25 11:10, David Hildenbrand wrote: >>>>> And to make matters worse, we have two competing user-space programs: >>>>> - udev >>>>> - daxctl >>>>> neither of which is (or can be made) aware of each other. >>>>> This leads to races and/or inconsistencies. >>>> >>>> Would it help if generic udev memory hotplug rule exclude anything that >>>> is dax backed? Is there a way to check for that? Sorry if this is a >>>> stupid question. >>> Parsing /proc/iomem, it's indicated as "System RAM (kmem)". >>> >> I would rather do it the other way round, and make daxctl aware of >> udev. In the end, even 'daxctl' uses the sysfs interface to online >> memory, which really is the territory of udev and can easily be >> done via udev rules (for static configuration). > > udev doesn't really have any context what user space wants to do with > the memory and therefore how to online it. Therefore we have (arguably) > ugly hacks like auto onlining and movable_ration etc. daxctl can take > information from the admin directly and therfore it can do what is > needed without further hacks. Really the only difference between daxctl and everything else is the way the memory is added. daxctl triggers hotplug of memory synchronously, everything else is asynchronous. On most systems, the admin (the same one that triggers onlining) could just set the auto-onlining policy accordingly instead of manually onlining memory blocks from user space. > >> Note, we do a similar thing on s/390; the configuration tool there >> just spits out udev rules. > > Those were easy times when you just need to online memory without any > more requirements where it should land. Again, I don't think udev is the future for that. What I think we (Red Hat) want is a better and easier way to configure the kernel policy. If you want to control onlining manually, then disable the auto-online policy. -- Cheers, David / dhildenb