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 Z3KYcmNI 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02:03 -0800, Chris Li wrote: >>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2026 at 11:38 AM Viacheslav Dubeyko >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Machine Learning (ML) is approach/area of learning from data, >>>> finding patterns, and making predictions without implementing algorithms >>>> by developers. The number of areas of ML applications is growing >>>> with every day. Generally speaking, ML can introduce a self-evolving and >>>> self-learning capability in Linux kernel. There are already research works >>>> and industry efforts to employ ML approaches for configuration and >>>> optimization the Linux kernel. However, introduction of ML approaches >>>> in Linux kernel is not so simple and straightforward way. There are multiple >>>> problems and unanswered questions on this road. First of all, any ML model >>>> requires the floating-point operations (FPU) for running. But there is >>>> no direct use of FPUs in kernel space. Also, ML model requires training phase >>>> that can be a reason of significant performance degradation of Linux kernel. >>>> Even inference phase could be problematic from the performance point of view >>>> on kernel side. The using of ML approaches in Linux kernel is inevitable step. >>>> But, how can we use ML approaches in Linux kernel? Which infrastructure >>>> do we need to adopt ML models in Linux kernel? >>> >>> I think there are two different things, I think you want the latter >>> but I am not sure >>> >>> 1) using ML model to help kernel development, code reviews, generate >>> patches by descriptions etc. For example, Chris Mason has a kernel >>> review repo on github and he is sharing his review finding the mailing >>> list: >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_masoncl_review-2Dprompts_tree_main&d=DwIFaQ&c=BSDicqBQBDjDI9RkVyTcHQ&r=q5bIm4AXMzc8NJu1_RGmnQ2fMWKq4Y4RAkElvUgSs00&m=vvrDPxyw_JXPrkC8BjzA2kEtwdPfwV2gBMEXG7ZveXM4LhS01LfoGwqhEyUZpPe4&s=rqNez5_rmiEuE7in5e_7MfyUzzqzaA6Gk46WWvmN3yk&e= >>> It is kernel development related, but the ML agent code is running in >>> the user space. The actual ML computation might run GPU/TPUs. That >>> does not seem to be what you have in mind. >>> >>> 2) Run the ML model computation in the kernel space. >>> Can you clarify if this is what you have in mind? You mention kernel >>> FPU usage in the kernel for ML model. It is only relevant if you need >>> to run the FP in the kernel CPU instructions. Most ML computations are >>> not run in CPU instructions. They run on GPUs/TPUs. Why not keep the >>> ML program (PyTorch/agents) in the user space and pass the data to the >>> GPU/TPU driver to run? There will be some kernel instructure like >>> VFIO/IOMMU involved with the GPU/TPU driver. For the most part the >>> kernel is just facilitating the data passing to/from the GPU/TPU >>> driver then to the GPU/TPU hardware. The ML hardware is doing the >>> heavy lifting. >> >> The idea is to have ML model running in user-space and kernel subsystem can >> interact with ML model in user-space. As the next step, I am considering two >> real-life use-cases: (1) GC subsystem of LFS file system, (2) ML-based DAMON >> approach. So, for example, GC can be represented by ML model in user-space. GC >> can request data (segments state) from kernel-space and ML model in user-space >> can do training or/and inference. As a result, ML model in user-space can select >> victim segments and instruct kernel-space logic of moving valid data from victim >> segment(s) into clean/current one(s). > > To be honest I'm skeptical about how generic this can be. Essentially > you're describing a generic interface to offload arbitrary kernel decision > to userspace. ML is a userspace bussiness here and not really relevant for > the concept AFAICT. And we already have several ways of kernel asking > userspace to do something for it and unless it is very restricted and well > defined it is rather painful, prone to deadlocks, security issues etc. > > So by all means if you want to do GC decisions for your filesystem in > userspace by ML, be my guest, it does make some sense although I'd be wary > of issues where we need to writeback dirty pages to free memory which may > now depend on your userspace helper to make a decision which may need the > memory to do the decision... But I don't see why you need all the ML fluff > around it when it seems like just another way to call userspace helper and > why some of the existing methods would not suffice. Looking through the description (not the code, apologies), it really feels like we're reinventing BPF here: - introspection into what the kernel is currently doing - communications channel with applications - a mechanism to override specific kernel functionality - fancy applications arbitrating decisions. My feedback during plumbers and also today is that you can get 99% of what you're looking for with some BPF code. It may or may not be perfect for your needs, but it's a much faster path to generate community and collaboration around the goals. After that, it's a lot easier to justify larger changes in the kernel. If this becomes an LSF/MM topic, my bar for discussion would be: - extensive data collected about some kernel component (Damon, scheduling etc) - working proof of concept that improved on decisions made in the kernel - discussion of changes needed to improve or enable the proof of concept In other words, I don't think we need a list of ways ML might be used. I think we need specific examples of a way that ML was used and why it's better than what the kernel is already doing. -chris