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[49.181.247.196]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v5-20020aa78505000000b006e4f311f61bsm89206pfn.103.2024.02.28.17.29.37 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 28 Feb 2024 17:29:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from dave by dread.disaster.area with local (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1rfVEt-00Cu3g-0D; Thu, 29 Feb 2024 12:29:35 +1100 Date: Thu, 29 Feb 2024 12:29:35 +1100 From: Dave Chinner To: Matthew Wilcox Cc: Amir Goldstein , paulmck@kernel.org, lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel , Kent Overstreet , Jan Kara Subject: Re: [Lsf-pc] [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Reclamation interactions with RCU Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Server: rspam08 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 78234120003 X-Stat-Signature: et9ce1wegcy5a7dhcbbhtizpyswzac8m X-Rspam-User: X-HE-Tag: 1709170179-815198 X-HE-Meta: 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 Puc4PRUE 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 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000001, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 07:37:58PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote: > On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 09:19:47PM +0200, Amir Goldstein wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 8:56 PM Paul E. McKenney wrote: > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > Recent discussions [1] suggest that greater mutual understanding between > > > memory reclaim on the one hand and RCU on the other might be in order. > > > > > > One possibility would be an open discussion. If it would help, I would > > > be happy to describe how RCU reacts and responds to heavy load, along with > > > some ways that RCU's reactions and responses could be enhanced if needed. > > > > > > > Adding fsdevel as this should probably be a cross track session. > > Perhaps broaden this slightly. On the THP Cabal call we just had a > conversation about the requirements on filesystems in the writeback > path. We currently tell filesystem authors that the entire writeback > path must avoid allocating memory in order to prevent deadlock (or use > GFP_MEMALLOC). Is this appropriate? The reality is that filesystem developers have been ignoring that "mm rule" for a couple of decades. It was also discussed at LSFMM a decade ago (2014 IIRC) without resolution, so in the mean time we just took control of our own destiny.... > It's a lot of work to assure that > writing pagecache back will not allocate memory in, eg, the network stack, > the device driver, and any other layers the write must traverse. > > With the removal of ->writepage from vmscan, perhaps we can make > filesystem authors lives easier by relaxing this requirement as pagecache > should be cleaned long before we get to reclaiming it. .... by removing memory reclaim page cache writeback support from the filesystems entirely. IOWs, this rule hasn't been valid for a -long- time, so maybe it is time to remove it. :) Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Chinner david@fromorbit.com