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[73.219.103.14]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t8sm2528013qkt.117.2021.09.22.13.15.32 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:15:28 -0400 From: Kent Overstreet To: Matthew Wilcox , Johannes Weiner Cc: Chris Mason , Linus Torvalds , "linux-mm@kvack.org" , linux-fsdevel , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , Andrew Morton , "Darrick J. Wong" , Christoph Hellwig , David Howells Subject: Re: Folios for 5.15 request - Was: re: Folio discussion recap - Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Server: rspam01 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 61B84E001981 Authentication-Results: imf30.hostedemail.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=TtkjId9b; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (imf30.hostedemail.com: domain of kent.overstreet@gmail.com designates 209.85.222.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kent.overstreet@gmail.com X-Stat-Signature: n5zj47gy5r4hgo7dn8dpsifuuu7md86c X-HE-Tag: 1632341734-712515 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:54:11PM +0100, Matthew Wilcox wrote: > That's the nature of a pull request. It's binary -- either it's pulled or > it's rejected. Well, except that Linus has opted for silence, leaving > me in limbo. I have no idea what he's thinking. I don't know if he > agrees with Johannes. I don't know what needs to change for Linus to > like this series enough to pull it (either now or in the 5.16 merge > window). And that makes me frustrated. This is over a year of work > from me and others, and it's being held up over concerns which seem to > me to be entirely insubstantial (the name "folio"? really? and even > my change to use "pageset" was met with silence from Linus.) People bikeshed the naming when they're uncomfortable with what's being proposed and have nothing substantive to say, and people are uncomfortable with what's being proposed when there's clear disagreement between major stakeholders who aren't working with each other. And the utterly ridiculous part of this whole fiasco is that you and Johannes have a LOT of common ground regarding the larger picture of what we do with the struct page mess, but you two keep digging in your heels purely because you're convinced that you can't work with each other so you need to either route around each other or be as forceful as possible to get what you want. You're convinced you're not listenig to each other, but even that isn't true because when I pass ideas back and forth between you and they come from "not Matthew" or "not Johannes" you both listen and incorporate them just fine. We can't have a process where major stakeholders are trying to actively sabotage each other's efforts, which is pretty close to where we're at now. You two just need to learn to work with each other.