From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA64C2B9F7 for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 15:55:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2DEA613AB for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 15:55:31 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org C2DEA613AB Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=ideasonboard.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) id BB7536B0036; Fri, 28 May 2021 11:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 40) id B4BD76B006E; Fri, 28 May 2021 11:55:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: int-list-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 63042) id 6DFAC6B0070; Fri, 28 May 2021 11:55:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: linux-mm@kvack.org Received: from forelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0228.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.228]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2932E6B0036 for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 11:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpin12.hostedemail.com (10.5.19.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.19.251]) by forelay05.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99AF6181AF5CC for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 15:55:29 +0000 (UTC) X-FDA: 78191089578.12.EB780ED Received: from perceval.ideasonboard.com (perceval.ideasonboard.com [213.167.242.64]) by imf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24878C009190 for ; Fri, 28 May 2021 15:55:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pendragon.ideasonboard.com (62-78-145-57.bb.dnainternet.fi [62.78.145.57]) by perceval.ideasonboard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3147E145A; Fri, 28 May 2021 17:55:27 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ideasonboard.com; s=mail; t=1622217327; bh=PYQUxKB6qr/x39dXUXRBEnFxFW0a82BQUphJx+n6PFY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=thVS00BUTw/GzFkiPI916NBupzLD4gZjAcLuEafGYvfQClaN6vN81nvk7Ns18XAkG +w3+xT+QKa6Hr5RxqUkdZxYmMMifscU/BPwHPFUJQEfqeuI6mgJDKwvzguZP6Y4hoO NtC4aeY96H2bESHDlElLvlRm5jhrgqFrA7aMFQvs= Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 18:55:20 +0300 From: Laurent Pinchart To: James Bottomley Cc: Matthew Wilcox , Greg KH , Christoph Lameter , Theodore Ts'o , Jiri Kosina , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Maintainers / Kernel Summit 2021 planning kick-off Message-ID: References: <15419fa8e5c0047327395387b28c09d775b35a55.camel@HansenPartnership.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <15419fa8e5c0047327395387b28c09d775b35a55.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Authentication-Results: imf03.hostedemail.com; dkim=pass header.d=ideasonboard.com header.s=mail header.b=thVS00BU; spf=pass (imf03.hostedemail.com: domain of laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com designates 213.167.242.64 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com; dmarc=none X-Rspamd-Server: rspam01 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 24878C009190 X-Stat-Signature: 7193yzaws5m1dh1fsxce4fia4pz9dcqx X-HE-Tag: 1622217320-437707 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000147, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: Hi James, On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 08:44:23AM -0700, James Bottomley wrote: > On Fri, 2021-05-28 at 18:31 +0300, Laurent Pinchart wrote: > > On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 08:27:44AM -0700, James Bottomley wrote: > [...] > > > Well, I'm not going to get into a debate over the effectiveness of > > > the current vaccines. I will say that all conferences have to now > > > recognize that a sizeable proportion of former attendees will have > > > fears about travelling and therefore remote components are going to > > > be a fixture of conferences going forward. > > > > > > However, while we should accommodate them, we can't let these fears > > > override people willing to take the risk and meet in person. > > > > The interesting question is how we'll make sure that those people > > will not be de facto excluded from the community, or end up as > > second-class citizens. > > Before the pandemic, there was a small contingent who refused to fly > for various reasons. We did sort of accommodate that by rotating the > conference to Europe where more people could come in by train (like > they did in Lisbon) but we didn't govern the whole conference by trying > to make aerophobes first class citizens. > > The bottom line is that as long as enough people are willing to meet in > person and in-person delivers more value that remote (even though we'll > try to make remote as valuable as possible) we should do it. We > should not handicap the desires of the one group by the fears of the > other because that's a false equality ... it's reducing everyone to the > level of the lowest common denominator rather than trying to elevate > people. This should take into account the size of each group, and I believe even then it won't be a binary decision, there's lots of variation in local situations, creating more than just two groups of coward/careless people (let's not debate those two words if possible, they're not meant to insult anyway, but to emphasize that there are more categories). While I believe that in-person meetings will become the norm again in a reasonably near future, 2021 seems a bit premature to me. If we want to brainstorm alternate solutions, an option could be to split the monolithic conference location into a small set of geographically distributed groups (assuming local travel would be easier and generally seen as an accepted solution compared to intercontinental travels) and link those through video conferencing. I don't have high hopes that this would be feasible in practice given the increase in efforts and costs to organize multiple locations in parallel, but maybe something interesting could come out of discussing different options. -- Regards, Laurent Pinchart