From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 07:50:51 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Mason Subject: Re: (reiserfs) Re: RFC: Re: journal ports for 2.3? (resending because my ISP probably lost it) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Return-Path: To: "Peter J. Braam" Cc: Hans Reiser , Andrea Arcangeli , "William J. Earl" , Tan Pong Heng , "Stephen C. Tweedie" , "Benjamin C.R. LaHaise" , reiserfs@devlinux.com, mason@suse.com, linux-fsdevel@vger.rutgers.edu, linux-mm@kvack.org, Ingo Molnar , Linus Torvalds , intermezzo-devel@stelias.com, simmonds@stelias.com List-ID: On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Peter J. Braam wrote: > I think I mean joining. What I need is: > > braam starts trans > does A > calls reiser: hans starts > does B > hans commits; nothing goes to disk yet > braam does C > braam commits/aborts ABC now go or don't > > Reiserfs won't do this kind of nesting right now, we also don't have a transaction abort (aside from crashing the machine). These can be added to a future version, but would you mind explaining your transaction needs in more detail (offline) so I can get a better idea of what you are looking for? -chris > - Peter - > > On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Hans Reiser wrote: > > > Is nesting really the term you mean to use here, or is joining the term you > > mean? > > > > Do you really mean transactions within other transactions? > > > > Exactly what functionality do you need? > > > > Hans > > > > "Peter J. Braam" wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I have one request for the journal API for use by network file systems - > > > it is a request of a slightly different nature than the ones discussed so > > > far. > > > > > > InterMezzo (www.inter-mezzo.org) exploits an existing disk file system as > > > a cache and wraps around it. (Any disk file system can be used, but so far > > > only Ext2 has been exploited.) High availability file systems need update > > > logs of changes that were made to the cache so that these may be > > > propagated to peers when they come back online (to support "disconnected > > > operation"). > > > > > > Requested feature: > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Stephen's journal API has a tremendously useful feature: it allows nesting > > > of transactions. I don't know if Reiser has this (can you tell me > > > Chris?) but it is _incredibly_ useful. So: > > > > > > - InterMezzo can start a journal transaction > > > - execute the underlying Ext3 routine within that transaction > > > (i.e. the Ext3 transaction becomes part of the one started > > > by InterMezzo) > > > - InterMezzo finishes its routine (e.g. by noting that an update > > > took place in its update log) and commits or aborts the transaction > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > [So, in particular InterMezzo and Ext3 share the journal transaction log.] > > > > > > Why is this useful? There are at least two reasons: > > > > > > - the update InterMezzo update log can be kept in sync with the Ext3 file > > > system as a cache > > > > > > - InterMezzo will soon manage somewhat more metadata (e.g. it may want to > > > remmeber a global file identifier, similar to a Coda FID or NFS file > > > handle) and it can make updates to its metadata atomically with updates > > > made to Ext3 metadata. > > > > > > Both of these reasons touch the core architectural decisions of systems > > > like Coda/AFS/InterMezzo/DCE-DFS -- so there is some historical reason to > > > be so delighted with what one can do with Stephen's API. > > > > > > Presently, systems like Coda and AFS have a hell of a time keeping caches > > > in sync with the metadata and to a large extent Coda's really bad > > > performance is caused by this (an external transaction system is used in > > > conjunction with synchronous operations on the disk file system, ouch...). > > > InterMezzo will start using the kernel journal facility that should be > > > much lighter weight. > > > > > > Is this a reasonable thing to ask for? > > > > > > - Peter - > > > > -- > > Get Linux (http://www.kernel.org) plus ReiserFS > > (http://devlinux.org/namesys). If you sell an OS or > > internet appliance, buy a port of ReiserFS! If you > > need customizations and industrial grade support, we sell them. > > > -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@kvack.org. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.nl.linux.org/Linux-MM/