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olivier.singla@amperecomputing.com, Linux MM , Michal Hocko , Dan Williams , Ryan Roberts Subject: Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Multi-sized THP performance benchmarks and analysis on ARM64 Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2024 14:56:37 -0400 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.14r6028) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <20240401191614.00007c83@Huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=_MailMate_57AD09BA-FFA5-4D23-8C54-42E155B1DDC5_="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-ClientProxiedBy: BLAPR05CA0026.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:335::8) To DS7PR12MB5744.namprd12.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:8:73::18) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DS7PR12MB5744:EE_|DS0PR12MB7996:EE_ X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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useful data, but is it a suitable topic for LSF-MM? >>> What open questions etc is it raising? >> >> >> mTHP is new functionality that will require additional work to support= more >> use cases. It is also unclear at this point in what usecases mTHP is u= seful >> and where no benefit can so far be seen. Also the effect of coalescing= >> multiple PTE entries into one TLB entry is new to MM (CONT_PTE). I think we need a clarification of CONT_PTE from Christoph. =46rom the context of ARM CPUs, CONT_PTE might be a group of PTEs with co= ntiguous bit set. It was used by hugetlb and kernel linear mapping before Ryan add= ed CONT_PTE support for mTHPs. This requires software support (setting conti= guous bits) to be able to coalesce PTEs. But ARM also has this Hardware Page Aggregat= ion (HPA) feature[1], which can coalesce PTEs without software intervention. I am n= ot sure which ARM CPUs actually implement it. =46rom the context of all CPUs, AMD has "PTE coalescing/clustering"[2] fe= ature from Zen1. It is similar to ARM's HPA, not requiring software changes to coalesce PTEs. RISC-V also has Svnapot (Naturally-Aligned Power-of-Two Address-Translation Contiguity) [3], which requires software help. So with Matthew's folio patches back in 2020, hardware-only CONT_PTE would work since then. But software-assist CONT_PTE just began to work on ARM CPUs with Ryan's cont-pte patchset for anonymous memory and page c= ache. >> >> Ultimately it would be useful to have mTHP support also provide larger= >> blocksize capabilities for filesystem etc etc. mTHP needs to mature an= d an >> analysis of the arguable a bit experimental state of affairs can help = a lot >> in getting there. > > Have you been paying attention to anything that's been happening in Lin= ux > development in the last three years? 7b230db3b8d3 introduced folios > in December 2020 (was merged in November 2021 for v5.16). v5.17 (March= > 2022) did everything short of enabling large folios for the page cache,= > which landed in v5.18 (May 2022). We started using cont-PTEs for large= > folios in August 2023. Again, the page cache led the way here and we'r= e > just adding support for anonymous large folios (called mTHP) now. Matthew, your cont-PTE here is "New page table range API" right? There is= no ARM contiguous bit manipulation, right? > > There's still a ton of work to do, but we've been busy doing it since > LSFMM in Puerto Rico (2019) with READ_ONLY_THP_FOR_FS being the very > first result from the group of interested developers. > > And if you haven't seen the results that Ryan Roberts has posted for > the tests he's run, I suggest you look them up. He does a great job > of breaking down how much benefit he sees from the hardware side (use o= f > contPTE) vs the software side (shorter LRU lists, fewer atomic ops). It is definitely helpful to distinguish hardware and software benefits, since not all CPUs can coalesce PTEs. [1] https://developer.arm.com/documentation/100616/0301/register-descript= ions/aarch64-system-registers/cpuectlr-el1--cpu-extended-control-register= --el1 [2] https://www.eliot.so/memsys23.pdf [3] https://github.com/riscv/virtual-memory?tab=3Dreadme-ov-file#svnapot-= naturally-aligned-power-of-two-address-translation-contiguity -- Best Regards, Yan, Zi --=_MailMate_57AD09BA-FFA5-4D23-8C54-42E155B1DDC5_= Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJDBAEBCgAtFiEE6rR4j8RuQ2XmaZol4n+egRQHKFQFAmYUPeUPHHppeUBudmlk aWEuY29tAAoJEOJ/noEUByhUxmsP/i1fxf6pVZ5fk4V2B9qTTgY7ntcn3sgBUnEq 3Eb4lFwuP0j/j2hYooWgxaK7MOt435jvhvZFiG7Tep3E35+GpYvOSqNvg6MuIv2H EDcvmoH49WqI7benD4+o0PEe69wAR6/2GsKjlBgw9sZhLERY6e9GuryDhus0Ie3l cCShALX5bwILyQELSzmapXgDvct2BhXh9YiXXWIUSin99LU/mDoTYBZ5BJrZIlAu 6yInpoj2FXA6e/jZANKcX/s5Y5Els4JEcSzEPFkUzt1XZizZEA8yTfn/0qjsKEKQ C/6+bzaNFh4AmXKC3w+7Juryo2/sIjVpBYuP9U0pw4WExz6eif/ecwZRqdhZzB1w 7ZbNWcFh43bPzPcqYfrsaJkA1xOi4QBFlP7eZeG99NxsxsegdnYJXEeqvQqHiPnY jM2ucQPgryhkfT8KDNX1lpnv8kDmJbVkLHurSfwvjAGrkE3Ns5g2tKo6EdFX+Aoq eaVKhe1j0GBM3X3OvVg+KEbMJpPDCNV3UwqbrtYnLsejnE8FTax3oQ1398i7Dkr+ a6eK4PLX6vktVrlfKxmXDaP4lbhwMMO/DoGM4wiUQkLywqwP+y0Vx+7UJrPFNK+X VeS9XHWzBdjSTGvZolAZdzEjM6Fi4vaGBtbUjH6ZtTl+JBU2xSe4a6CpKaWLHuAP EklMK9a0 =lsNs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_MailMate_57AD09BA-FFA5-4D23-8C54-42E155B1DDC5_=--