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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Theo de Raadt <deraadt@openbsd.org>
Cc: Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	 Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	jeffxu@chromium.org, keescook@chromium.org,  jannh@google.com,
	sroettger@google.com, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org,
	 usama.anjum@collabora.com, Liam.Howlett@oracle.com,
	surenb@google.com,  merimus@google.com, rdunlap@infradead.org,
	jeffxu@google.com,  jorgelo@chromium.org, groeck@chromium.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,  linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, pedro.falcato@gmail.com,
	 dave.hansen@intel.com, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v10 0/5] Introduce mseal
Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 17:43:47 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHk-=wgsGCKvN0Db6ZRZqJwXQrmhZyWB6RmABaOp4DiZbXgNew@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <56001.1715726927@cvs.openbsd.org>

On Tue, 14 May 2024 at 15:48, Theo de Raadt <deraadt@openbsd.org> wrote:
>
> and can't imagine it affecting a single application

Honestly, that's the reason for not caring.

You have to do actively wrong things for this to matter AT ALL.

So no, we're not making gratuitous changes for stupid reasons.

> I worry that the non-atomicity will one day be used by an attacker.

Blah blah blah. That's a made-up scare tactic if I ever heard one.
It's unworthy of you.

Anybody who does mprotect/mmap/munmap/whatever over multiple
independent memory mappings had better know exactly what mappings they
are touching. Otherwise they are *already* just doing random crap.

In other words: nobody actually does that. Yes, you have people who
first carve out one big area with an mmap(), and then do their own
memory management within that area. But the point is, they are very
much in control and if they do something inconsistent, they absolutely
only have themselves to blame.

And if you have some app that randomly does mprotect etc over multipl
memory mappings that it doesn't know what the f*^% they are, then
there is no saving such a piece of unbelievable garbahe.

So stop the pointless fear-mongering. Linux does the smart thing,
which is to not waste a single cycle on something that cannot possibly
be relevant.

             Linus


  parent reply	other threads:[~2024-05-15  0:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-04-15 16:35 jeffxu
2024-04-15 16:35 ` [PATCH v10 1/5] mseal: Wire up mseal syscall jeffxu
2024-04-15 18:12   ` Muhammad Usama Anjum
2024-04-15 18:21     ` Linus Torvalds
2024-04-15 19:06       ` Jeff Xu
2024-04-15 16:35 ` [PATCH v10 2/5] mseal: add " jeffxu
2024-04-16 14:59   ` Liam R. Howlett
2024-04-16 15:17     ` Jann Horn
2024-04-16 16:42     ` Theo de Raadt
2024-04-15 16:35 ` [PATCH v10 3/5] selftest mm/mseal memory sealing jeffxu
2024-04-15 18:32   ` Muhammad Usama Anjum
2024-04-15 20:27     ` Jeff Xu
2024-04-16  0:34       ` Kees Cook
2024-05-02 11:24   ` Ryan Roberts
2024-05-02 15:18     ` Jeff Xu
2024-05-02 22:39     ` Jeff Xu
2024-05-03  8:30       ` Ryan Roberts
2024-04-15 16:35 ` [PATCH v10 4/5] mseal:add documentation jeffxu
2024-04-15 16:35 ` [PATCH v10 5/5] selftest mm/mseal read-only elf memory segment jeffxu
2024-04-16 15:13 ` [PATCH v10 0/5] Introduce mseal Liam R. Howlett
2024-04-16 19:40   ` Jeff Xu
2024-04-18 20:19     ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2024-04-19  1:22       ` Jeff Xu
2024-04-19 14:57         ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2024-04-19 15:14           ` Jeff Xu
2024-04-19 16:54             ` Suren Baghdasaryan
2024-04-19 17:59         ` Pedro Falcato
2024-04-20  1:23           ` Jeff Xu
2024-05-14 17:46 ` Andrew Morton
2024-05-14 19:52   ` Kees Cook
2024-05-23 23:32     ` Kees Cook
2024-05-23 23:54       ` Andrew Morton
2024-05-24 15:19         ` Linus Torvalds
2024-05-14 20:59   ` Jonathan Corbet
2024-05-14 21:28     ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-05-14 22:48       ` Theo de Raadt
2024-05-14 23:01         ` Andrew Morton
2024-05-14 23:47           ` Theo de Raadt
2024-05-15  2:58             ` Willy Tarreau
2024-05-15  3:36               ` Linus Torvalds
2024-05-15  4:14                 ` Linus Torvalds
2024-05-15  6:14                   ` Willy Tarreau
2024-05-15  0:43         ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2024-05-15  0:57           ` Theo de Raadt
2024-05-15  1:20             ` Linus Torvalds
2024-05-15  1:47               ` Theo de Raadt
2024-05-15  2:28                 ` Linus Torvalds
2024-05-15  2:42                   ` Theo de Raadt
2024-05-15  4:53                     ` Liam R. Howlett
2024-05-14 21:28   ` Liam R. Howlett
2024-05-15 17:18     ` Jeff Xu
2024-05-15 22:19       ` Liam R. Howlett
2024-05-16  0:59         ` Jeff Xu
2024-05-21 16:00           ` Liam R. Howlett
2024-05-21 20:55             ` Jeff Xu

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