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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Marco Elver <elver@google.com>
Cc: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	 Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>, Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
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Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 00/35] Compiler-Based Capability- and Locking-Analysis
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2025 08:49:44 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHk-=wgd-Wcp0GpYaQnU7S9ci+FvFmaNw1gm75mzf0ZWdNLxvw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20250918140451.1289454-1-elver@google.com>

On Thu, 18 Sept 2025 at 07:05, Marco Elver <elver@google.com> wrote:
>
> Capability analysis is a C language extension, which enables statically
> checking that user-definable "capabilities" are acquired and released where
> required. An obvious application is lock-safety checking for the kernel's
> various synchronization primitives (each of which represents a "capability"),
> and checking that locking rules are not violated.
>
> Clang originally called the feature "Thread Safety Analysis" [1],

So this looks really interesting, but I absolutely *hate* the new
"capability" name.

We have existing and traditional - and very very different - meaning
of "capabilities" in the kernel, and having this thing called
"capability" is just wrong. Particularly as it then talks about
"acquiring capabilities" - which is *EXACTLY* what our lon-existing
capabilities are all about, but are something entirely and totally
different.

So please - call it something else. Even if clang then calls it
'capability analysis", within the context of a kernel, please ignore
that, and call it something that makes more sense (I don't think
"capabilities" make sense even in the context of clang, but hey,
that's _their_ choice - but we should not then take that bad choice
and run with it).

Sparse called it "context analysis", and while the "analysis" part is
debatable - sparse never did much anything clever enough to merit
calling it analysis - at least the "context" part of the name is I
think somewhat sane.

Because it's about making decisions based on the context the code runs in.

But I'm certainly not married to the "context" name either. I'd still
claim it makes more sense than "capability", but the real problem with
"capability" isn't that it doesn't make sense, it's that we already
*HAVE* that as a concept, and old and traditional use is important.

But we do use the word "context" in this context quite widely even
outside of the sparse usage, ie that's what we say when we talk about
things like locking and RCU (ie we talk about running in "process
context", or about "interrupt context" etc). That's obviously where
the sparse naming comes from - it's not like sparse made that up.

So I'm really happy to see compilers start exposing these kinds of
interfaces, and the patches look sane apart from the absolutely
horrible and unacceptable name. Really - there is no way in hell we
can call this "capability" in a kernel context.

I'd suggest just doing a search-and-replace of 's/capability/context/'
and it would already make things a ton better. But maybe there are
better names for this still?

I mean, even apart from the fact that we have an existing meaning for
"capability", just look at the documentation patch, and read the first
sentence:

  Capability analysis is a C language extension, which enables statically
  checking that user-definable "capabilities" are acquired and released where
  required.

and just from a plain English language standpoint, the word
"capability" makes zero sense. I think you even realized that, in that
you put that word in quotes, because it's _so_ nonsensical.

And if not "context", maybe some other word? But really, absolutely
*not* "capability". Because that's just crazy talk.

Please? Because other than this naming issue, I think this really is a
good idea.

           Linus


  parent reply	other threads:[~2025-09-18 15:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-09-18 13:59 Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 01/35] compiler_types: Move lock checking attributes to compiler-capability-analysis.h Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 02/35] compiler-capability-analysis: Add infrastructure for Clang's capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 15:58   ` Ian Rogers
2025-09-18 16:03     ` Bart Van Assche
2025-09-18 16:14       ` Steven Rostedt
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 03/35] compiler-capability-analysis: Add test stub Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 04/35] Documentation: Add documentation for Compiler-Based Capability Analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 05/35] checkpatch: Warn about capability_unsafe() without comment Marco Elver
2025-09-18 20:36   ` Joe Perches
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 06/35] cleanup: Basic compatibility with capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 07/35] lockdep: Annotate lockdep assertions for " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 08/35] locking/rwlock, spinlock: Support Clang's " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 09/35] compiler-capability-analysis: Change __cond_acquires to take return value Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 10/35] locking/mutex: Support Clang's capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 11/35] locking/seqlock: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 12/35] bit_spinlock: Include missing <asm/processor.h> Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 13/35] bit_spinlock: Support Clang's capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 14/35] rcu: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 15/35] srcu: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 16/35] kref: Add capability-analysis annotations Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 17/35] locking/rwsem: Support Clang's capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 18/35] locking/local_lock: Include missing headers Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 19/35] locking/local_lock: Support Clang's capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 20/35] locking/ww_mutex: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 21/35] debugfs: Make debugfs_cancellation a capability struct Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 22/35] compiler-capability-analysis: Remove Sparse support Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 23/35] compiler-capability-analysis: Remove __cond_lock() function-like helper Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 24/35] compiler-capability-analysis: Introduce header suppressions Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 25/35] compiler: Let data_race() imply disabled capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 26/35] MAINTAINERS: Add entry for Capability Analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 27/35] kfence: Enable capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 28/35] kcov: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 29/35] kcsan: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 30/35] stackdepot: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 31/35] rhashtable: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 32/35] printk: Move locking annotation to printk.c Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 33/35] security/tomoyo: Enable capability analysis Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 34/35] crypto: " Marco Elver
2025-09-18 13:59 ` [PATCH v3 35/35] sched: Enable capability analysis for core.c and fair.c Marco Elver
2025-09-18 14:15 ` [PATCH v3 00/35] Compiler-Based Capability- and Locking-Analysis Christoph Hellwig
2025-09-18 14:30   ` Marco Elver
2025-09-18 14:38     ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-09-18 17:45   ` Nathan Chancellor
2025-09-18 19:40     ` Nathan Chancellor
2025-09-19 14:08     ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-09-19 14:09       ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-09-22  9:33         ` Marco Elver
2025-09-22 17:11           ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-09-23 19:49           ` Nathan Chancellor
2025-09-19 17:20       ` Bart Van Assche
2025-09-22 17:12         ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-09-20 10:23       ` Marco Elver
2025-09-20 12:44         ` Marco Elver
2025-09-18 15:49 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2025-09-18 21:26   ` Marco Elver
2025-09-18 21:47     ` Linus Torvalds
2025-09-19  9:10       ` Marco Elver
2025-11-13 14:30         ` Marco Elver
2025-11-14  4:38           ` Nathan Chancellor
2025-11-14 13:22             ` Marco Elver
2025-09-18 16:21 ` Ian Rogers
2025-09-18 19:41 ` [syzbot ci] " syzbot ci
2025-09-19  7:05   ` Marco Elver

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