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Mon, 20 Oct 2025 13:54:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20250910170000.6475-1-gpaoloni@redhat.com> <20250910170000.6475-2-gpaoloni@redhat.com> <878qifgxbj.fsf@trenco.lwn.net> <85166a8a-ad54-42d0-a09f-43e0044cf4f4@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <85166a8a-ad54-42d0-a09f-43e0044cf4f4@redhat.com> From: Chuck Wolber Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2025 20:54:27 +0000 X-Gm-Features: AS18NWCz8CUGo4W0Kw553bxc2jcFK5zDsBgIs6orMS07q-VmX96ukenvgRHVvAM Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC v2 PATCH 1/3] Documentation: add guidelines for writing testable code specifications To: David Hildenbrand Cc: Jonathan Corbet , Gabriele Paoloni , shuah@kernel.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, safety-architecture@lists.elisa.tech, acarmina@redhat.com, kstewart@linuxfoundation.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fbd93b06419d4a9c" X-Rspamd-Server: rspam05 X-Stat-Signature: fmwusiq69wzgz6ccqzxqiz5kpcapnagn X-Rspam-User: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: F1D95A0007 X-HE-Tag: 1760993685-432481 X-HE-Meta: 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 3rvU9apI 51jpbSYZ6hgbAk/yF5eRcePdHCpL/4LnpVKaj3mZX4JsWEWjU1vh5z7A6okY8M/eO2SkJPrEXQpO3O6TtsoYabBedqDfQlYpxUennc63b/RMkspgdxsLk47hazV5lzCY11gQpCo4zmvuHoyYN5EX5TJHdjbMr0Y0WeErnYEPG1vv8RJ/5VoGcZEAQBNLWR/ITxLMpuTbeASnuueGaZcou9A24w7txkJwbyM+eOleGt2bRjRHJ8rcHkyPG7s2alT1GG3WITjn8FLdG+wXoSAP+O99Uigi/vqQLQGKJPSJutY+HIA3HYlG+xu+DYn6nPW+14mfCeID3uwg13mqJqANPwEKIu/mfcQrU1i+2PG1N5EtaE8ihOdXUu7p3Swbyc8Uawb3Y8WRLyEQa+E4ijVXo56NWZ+my1RnkSgjI3PY9C8wkkVIdl7jjhCtkEP4VxRB+rkZuIX1SNiShZnGWyfyP03KtzIZjVZP0FFqyJt3MY39ghHo= X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000002, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000fbd93b06419d4a9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 20, 2025 at 7:35=E2=80=AFPM David Hildenbrand wrote: > >> +------------ > >> +The Documentation/doc-guide/kernel-doc.rst chapter describes how to > document the code using the kernel-doc format, however it does not specif= y > the criteria to be followed for writing testable specifications; i.e. > specifications that can be used to for the semantic description of low > level requirements. > > > > Please, for any future versions, stick to the 80-column limit; this is > > especially important for text files that you want humans to read. > > > > As a nit, you don't need to start by saying what other documents don't > > do, just describe the purpose of *this* document. > > > > More substantially ... I got a way into this document before realizing > > that you were describing an addition to the format of kerneldoc > > comments. That would be good to make clear from the outset. > > > > What I still don't really understand is what is the *purpose* of this > > formalized text? What will be consuming it? You're asking for a fair > > amount of effort to write and maintain these descriptions; what's in it > > for the people who do that work? > > I might be wrong, but sounds to me like someone intends to feed this to > AI to generate tests or code. > Absolutely not the intent. This is about the lossy process of converting human ideas to code. Reliably going from code to test requires an understanding o= f what was lost in translation. This project is about filling that gap. In that case, no thanks. > > I'm pretty sure we don't want this. > Nor I. If you find any references in our work that amount to a validation o= f your concerns, please bring them to our attention. ..Ch:W.. --000000000000fbd93b06419d4a9c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Oct 20, 2025 at 7:35=E2=80=AFPM David Hildenbra= nd <david@redhat.com> wrote:<= /div>
>> +------------
>> +The Documentation/doc-guide/kernel-doc.rst chapter describes how = to document the code using the kernel-doc format, however it does not speci= fy the criteria to be followed for writing testable specifications; i.e. sp= ecifications that can be used to for the semantic description of low level = requirements.
>
> Please, for any future versions, stick to the 80-column limit; this is=
> especially important for text files that you want humans to read.
>
> As a nit, you don't need to start by saying what other documents d= on't
> do, just describe the purpose of *this* document.
>
> More substantially ... I got a way into this document before realizing=
> that you were describing an addition to the format of kerneldoc
> comments.=C2=A0 That would be good to make clear from the outset.
>
> What I still don't really understand is what is the *purpose* of t= his
> formalized text?=C2=A0 What will be consuming it?=C2=A0 You're ask= ing for a fair
> amount of effort to write and maintain these descriptions; what's = in it
> for the people who do that work?

I might be wrong, but sounds to me like someone intends to feed this to AI to generate tests or code.

Absolutely not the intent= . This is about the lossy process of converting human
ideas to code. Rel= iably going from code to test requires an understanding of
what was lost= in translation. This project is about filling that gap.


<= /div>
In that case, no thanks.

I'm pretty sure we don't want this.

=
Nor I. If you find any references in our work that amount to a validat= ion of
your concerns, please bring them to our attention.

..Ch:W..

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