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From: Samiullah Khawaja <skhawaja@google.com>
To: Pasha Tatashin <pasha.tatashin@soleen.com>
Cc: Pratyush Yadav <pratyush@kernel.org>,
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Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 14/30] liveupdate: luo_session: Add ioctls for file preservation and state management
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2025 15:00:20 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAAywjhTbBx+rYGpPGtTw_--9XhoYZBX8ase5ddM6rxmC5J-2JQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+CK2bBVSX26TKwgLkXCDop5u3e9McH3sQMascT47ZwwrwraOw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 1:13 PM Pasha Tatashin
<pasha.tatashin@soleen.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 3:07 PM Pratyush Yadav <pratyush@kernel.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Pasha,
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 29 2025, Pasha Tatashin wrote:
> >
> > > Introducing the userspace interface and internal logic required to
> > > manage the lifecycle of file descriptors within a session. Previously, a
> > > session was merely a container; this change makes it a functional
> > > management unit.
> > >
> > > The following capabilities are added:
> > >
> > > A new set of ioctl commands are added, which operate on the file
> > > descriptor returned by CREATE_SESSION. This allows userspace to:
> > > - LIVEUPDATE_SESSION_PRESERVE_FD: Add a file descriptor to a session
> > >   to be preserved across the live update.
> > > - LIVEUPDATE_SESSION_UNPRESERVE_FD: Remove a previously added file
> > >   descriptor from the session.
> > > - LIVEUPDATE_SESSION_RESTORE_FD: Retrieve a preserved file in the
> > >   new kernel using its unique token.
> > >
> > > A state machine for each individual session, distinct from the global
> > > LUO state. This enables more granular control, allowing userspace to
> > > prepare or freeze specific sessions independently. This is managed via:
> > > - LIVEUPDATE_SESSION_SET_EVENT: An ioctl to send PREPARE, FREEZE,
> > >   CANCEL, or FINISH events to a single session.
> > > - LIVEUPDATE_SESSION_GET_STATE: An ioctl to query the current state
> > >   of a single session.
> > >
> > > The global subsystem callbacks (luo_session_prepare, luo_session_freeze)
> > > are updated to iterate through all existing sessions. They now trigger
> > > the appropriate per-session state transitions for any sessions that
> > > haven't already been transitioned individually by userspace.
> > >
> > > The session's .release handler is enhanced to be state-aware. When a
> > > session's file descriptor is closed, it now correctly cancels or
> > > finishes the session based on its current state before freeing all
> > > associated file resources, preventing resource leaks.
> > >
> > > Signed-off-by: Pasha Tatashin <pasha.tatashin@soleen.com>
> > [...]
> > > +/**
> > > + * struct liveupdate_session_get_state - ioctl(LIVEUPDATE_SESSION_GET_STATE)
> > > + * @size:     Input; sizeof(struct liveupdate_session_get_state)
> > > + * @incoming: Input; If 1, query the state of a restored file from the incoming
> > > + *            (previous kernel's) set. If 0, query a file being prepared for
> > > + *            preservation in the current set.
> >
> > Spotted this when working on updating my test suite for LUO. This seems
> > to be a leftover from a previous version. I don't see it being used
> > anywhere in the code.
>
> thank you will remove this.
>
> > Also, I think the model we should have is to only allow new sessions in
> > normal state. Currently luo_session_create() allows creating a new
> > session in updated state. This would end up mixing sessions from a
> > previous boot and sessions from current boot. I don't really see a
> > reason for that and I think the userspace should first call finish
> > before starting new serialization. Keeps things simpler.
>
> It does. However, yesterday Jason Gunthorpe suggested that we simplify
> the uapi, at least for the initial landing, by removing the state
> machine during boot and allowing new sessions to be created at any
> time. This would also mean separating the incoming and outgoing
> sessions and removing the ioctl() call used to bring the machine into
> a normal state; instead, only individual sessions could be brought
> into a 'normal' state.
>
> Simplified uAPI Proposal
> The simplest uAPI would look like this:
> IOCTLs on /dev/liveupdate (to create and retrieve session FDs):
> LIVEUPDATE_IOCTL_CREATE_SESSION
> LIVEUPDATE_IOCTL_RETRIEVE_SESSION
>
> IOCTLs on session FDs:
> LIVEUPDATE_CMD_SESSION_PRESERVE_FD
> LIVEUPDATE_CMD_SESSION_RETRIEVE_FD
> LIVEUPDATE_CMD_SESSION_FINISH
>
> Happy Path
> The happy path would look like this:
> - luod creates a session with a specific name and passes it to the vmm.
> - The vmm preserves FDs in a specific order: memfd, iommufd, vfiofd.
> (If the order is wrong, the preserve callbacks will fail.)
> - A reboot(KEXEC) is performed.
> - Each session receives a freeze() callback to notify it that
> mutations are no longer possible.
> - During boot, liveupdate_fh_global_state_get(&h, &obj) can be used to
> retrieve the global state.
> - Once the machine has booted, luod retrieves the incoming sessions
> and passes them to the vmms.
> - The vmm retrieves the FDs from the session and performs the
> necessary IOCTLs on them.
> - The vmm calls LIVEUPDATE_CMD_SESSION_FINISH on the session. Each FD
> receives a finish() callback in LIFO order.
> - If everything succeeds, the session becomes an empty "outgoing"
> session. It can then be closed and discarded or reused for the next
> live update by preserving new FDs into it.
> - Once the last FD for a file-handler is finished,
> h->ops->global_state_finish(h, h->global_state_obj) is called to
> finish the incoming global state.
>
> Unhappy Paths
> - If an outgoing session FD is closed, each FD in that session
> receives an unpreserve callback in LIFO order.
> - If the last FD for a global state is unpreserved,
> h->ops->global_state_unpreserve(h, h->global_state_obj) is called.
> - If freeze() fails, a cancel() is performed on each FD that received
> freeze() cb, and reboot(KEXEC) returns a failure.

nit: Maybe we can rename cancel to unfreeze. So it matches preserve/unpreserve?
> - If an incoming session FD is closed, the resources are considered
> "leaked." They are discarded only during the next live-update; this is
> intended to prevent implementing rare and untested clean-up code.

I am assuming the preserved folios will become unpreserved during
shutdown and in the next kernel those folios are free.
> - If a user tries to finish a session and it fails, it is considered
> the user's problem. This might happen because some IOCTLs still need
> to be run on the retrieved FDs to bring them to a state where finish
> is possible.

Sounds great.
>
> This would also mean that subsystems would not be needed, leaving only
> FLB (File-Lifecycle-Bound Global State) to use as a handle for global
> state. The API I am proposing for FLB keeps the same global state for
> a single file-handler type. However, HugeTLB might have multiple file
> handlers, so the API would need to be extended slightly to support
> this case. Multiple file handlers will share the same global resource
> with the same callbacks.
>
> Pasha
>
> > > + * @reserved: Must be zero.
> > > + * @state:    Output; The live update state of this FD.
> > > + *
> > > + * Query the current live update state of a specific preserved file descriptor.
> > > + *
> > > + * - %LIVEUPDATE_STATE_NORMAL:   Default state
> > > + * - %LIVEUPDATE_STATE_PREPARED: Prepare callback has been performed on this FD.
> > > + * - %LIVEUPDATE_STATE_FROZEN:   Freeze callback ahs been performed on this FD.
> > > + * - %LIVEUPDATE_STATE_UPDATED:  The system has successfully rebooted into the
> > > + *                               new kernel.
> > > + *
> > > + * See the definition of &enum liveupdate_state for more details on each state.
> > > + *
> > > + * Return: 0 on success, negative error code on failure.
> > > + */
> > > +struct liveupdate_session_get_state {
> > > +     __u32           size;
> > > +     __u8            incoming;
> > > +     __u8            reserved[3];
> > > +     __u32           state;
> > > +};
> > > +
> > > +#define LIVEUPDATE_SESSION_GET_STATE                                 \
> > > +     _IO(LIVEUPDATE_IOCTL_TYPE, LIVEUPDATE_CMD_SESSION_GET_STATE)
> > [...]
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Pratyush Yadav


  parent reply	other threads:[~2025-10-29 22:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-09-29  1:02 [PATCH v4 00/30] Live Update Orchestrator Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:02 ` [PATCH v4 01/30] kho: allow to drive kho from within kernel Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:02 ` [PATCH v4 02/30] kho: make debugfs interface optional Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-06 16:30   ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-10-06 18:02     ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-06 16:55   ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-10-06 17:23     ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:02 ` [PATCH v4 03/30] kho: drop notifiers Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-06 14:30   ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-10-06 16:17     ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-06 16:38     ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-10-06 17:01   ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-10-06 17:21     ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-07 12:09       ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-10-07 13:16         ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-07 13:30           ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-09-29  1:02 ` [PATCH v4 04/30] kho: add interfaces to unpreserve folios and page ranes Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:02 ` [PATCH v4 05/30] kho: don't unpreserve memory during abort Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:02 ` [PATCH v4 06/30] liveupdate: kho: move to kernel/liveupdate Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:02 ` [PATCH v4 07/30] liveupdate: luo_core: luo_ioctl: Live Update Orchestrator Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:02 ` [PATCH v4 08/30] liveupdate: luo_core: integrate with KHO Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 09/30] liveupdate: luo_subsystems: add subsystem registration Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 10/30] liveupdate: luo_subsystems: implement subsystem callbacks Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 11/30] liveupdate: luo_session: Add sessions support Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 12/30] liveupdate: luo_ioctl: add user interface Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 13/30] liveupdate: luo_file: implement file systems callbacks Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 14/30] liveupdate: luo_session: Add ioctls for file preservation and state management Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-29 19:07   ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-10-29 20:13     ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-29 20:43       ` David Matlack
2025-10-29 20:57         ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-29 21:13       ` David Matlack
2025-10-29 21:17         ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-29 22:00       ` Samiullah Khawaja [this message]
2025-10-30 14:45         ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-29 20:37   ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-10-29 20:58     ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 15/30] reboot: call liveupdate_reboot() before kexec Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 16/30] kho: move kho debugfs directory to liveupdate Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 17/30] liveupdate: add selftests for subsystems un/registration Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 18/30] selftests/liveupdate: add subsystem/state tests Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-03 23:17   ` Vipin Sharma
2025-10-04  2:08     ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 19/30] docs: add luo documentation Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 20/30] MAINTAINERS: add liveupdate entry Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 21/30] mm: shmem: use SHMEM_F_* flags instead of VM_* flags Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 22/30] mm: shmem: allow freezing inode mapping Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 23/30] mm: shmem: export some functions to internal.h Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 24/30] luo: allow preserving memfd Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 25/30] docs: add documentation for memfd preservation via LUO Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 26/30] selftests/liveupdate: Add multi-kexec session lifecycle test Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-03 22:51   ` Vipin Sharma
2025-10-04  2:07     ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-04  2:37       ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-09 22:57         ` Vipin Sharma
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 27/30] selftests/liveupdate: Add multi-file and unreclaimed file test Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 28/30] selftests/liveupdate: Add multi-session workflow and state interaction test Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 29/30] selftests/liveupdate: Add test for unreclaimed resource cleanup Pasha Tatashin
2025-09-29  1:03 ` [PATCH v4 30/30] selftests/liveupdate: Add tests for per-session state and cancel cycles Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-07 17:10 ` [PATCH v4 00/30] Live Update Orchestrator Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-07 17:50   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-10-08  3:18     ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-08  7:03   ` Samiullah Khawaja
2025-10-08 16:40     ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-08 19:35       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-10-08 20:26         ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-09 14:48           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-10-09 15:01             ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-09 15:03               ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-09 16:46               ` Samiullah Khawaja
2025-10-09 17:39               ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-10-09 18:37                 ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-10 14:35                   ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-10-09 21:58   ` Samiullah Khawaja
2025-10-09 22:42     ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-10 14:42       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-10-10 14:58         ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-10 15:02           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-10-09 22:57   ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-10-09 23:50     ` Pasha Tatashin
2025-10-10 15:01       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-10-14 13:29         ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-10-20 14:29           ` Jason Gunthorpe
2025-10-27 11:37             ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-10-13 15:23       ` Pratyush Yadav
2025-10-10 12:45     ` Pasha Tatashin

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