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AJvYcCUXJJSPgkHWeFN4ME6mP3WbyK6KTnd5JWDylnMlteEQi13p8yVWISHSbTWBl92038w3qHB1lOnhhg==@kvack.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzzMJvFMnO5BBZto2Dzt1GP3UcVoN+T4HE/DYi9u2R5fcCvMhWk Ui78ZPM66gRojasIximFALGc1O+8RpEJ0Voexjh/kpPVNK9k9cG3yVFR4yS+ZujVVQOqjY6wJ+S vSEYF7XZBJTD2GxnYetrw+IJp58cGCafiCNHIOjfCGQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvD1v1ARTQro9BwIro1BDoe2bCdPzrzlPpU5SUug0vHB5XmsqS3QLlck/db+IF XwB3RWsagNsvAES+EK4PJsNjLBejAQPq2OdSVxiMEysQ0pWUDd2rgJBXawyBQno/Z+cBDjt+BLl nu3TL7cqDVIvLaqNirrYVrNnZvnLVyr9AapL8k3V3re8XnmStAzbqs/AqB3r52M7b0GB0qHH+1I hE78KVgHNXWaLv/5v9MsO/hNQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGBzy4xKVonjD75U3bFZeJHdh+aNj3HgTEf2iQJ6Ivdld2/QWu42FO96m5+KzxRvbcmbaVonTr0xtmksT79s30= X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:4cc9:b0:4cb:102c:56b2 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4da41e113ecmr158400271cf.0.1759005579868; Sat, 27 Sep 2025 13:39:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20250918222607.186488-1-xiyou.wangcong@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Pasha Tatashin Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2025 16:39:02 -0400 X-Gm-Features: AS18NWAcl8Gu_k5gDYsA34u-oRSTQGnYnzR7vJJapQMSC9amp96YmIxuBqedkv8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC Patch 0/7] kernel: Introduce multikernel architecture support To: Cong Wang Cc: Jarkko Sakkinen , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Cong Wang , Andrew Morton , Baoquan He , Alexander Graf , Mike Rapoport , Changyuan Lyu , kexec@lists.infradead.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, multikernel@lists.linux.dev Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Server: rspam11 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0426AA0013 X-Stat-Signature: 5kqsfiw8rjdfnrxjy78nme4m3bxfihzt X-Rspam-User: X-HE-Tag: 1759005580-701581 X-HE-Meta: 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 LNLbtT55 NMmuj4v9vGF52BctIHHhSu9TSuVpebU/9fRR0dm8h1SvnWDvuSTIVS0JIPMBesenIQTYj0uRcl8WRfo+prBWVseL99BHMkjQHgPvI+iaovK0ftqmMUV62eeixtGFffqm5nBGIEYSHH00kgBDakV5YMO33kA8cxsDcehM26sn5ApXf773SF6+6w8mxjbtle6FpPOQdUwF7bAtb0hu5+atXXGnfqIY3/vOuVeVj7iy/GS3MYT+lkewwZsXCe76wDdlUkx0MoBXSlIyCwH3rTqX25aHhAnMl1chCW/NAn6NGDHUEUG299VbMnmWHD5ZuNn+BfGBiEm+8QgtZXw7KPn7l+T94dURNeqgU3hsmDWdd0otng9zB0eith2WEZhQISqt+ax++qOyHRDpmlS51Uo8gUONSWlwG15Q1E3EizoBMy0E177wM+SypVaVJcYwMpsUrYdUTTdYbQQLidaxnF9LfpZiicjGOteaypyKufkdxU62qQRSMlXYa48n0aDUf3mZcEtvn X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 4:27=E2=80=AFPM Cong Wang wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2025 at 2:01=E2=80=AFAM Jarkko Sakkinen wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2025 at 03:25:59PM -0700, Cong Wang wrote: > > > This patch series introduces multikernel architecture support, enabli= ng > > > multiple independent kernel instances to coexist and communicate on a > > > single physical machine. Each kernel instance can run on dedicated CP= U > > > cores while sharing the underlying hardware resources. > > > > > > The multikernel architecture provides several key benefits: > > > - Improved fault isolation between different workloads > > > - Enhanced security through kernel-level separation > > > - Better resource utilization than traditional VM (KVM, Xen etc.) > > > - Potential zero-down kernel update with KHO (Kernel Hand Over) > > > > This list is like asking AI to list benefits, or like the whole cover > > letter has that type of feel. > > Sorry for giving you that feeling. Please let me know how I can > improve it for you. > > > > > I'd probably work on benchmarks and other types of tests that can > > deliver comparative figures, and show data that addresses workloads > > with KVM, namespaces/cgroups and this, reflecting these qualities. > > Sure, I think performance comes after usability, not vice versa. > > > > > > E.g. consider "Enhanced security through kernel-level separation". > > It's a pre-existing feature probably since dawn of time. Any new layer > > makes obviously more complex version "kernel-level separation". You'd > > had to prove that this even more complex version is more secure than > > pre-existing science. > > Apologize for this. Do you mind explaining why this is more complex > than the KVM/Qemu/vhost/virtio/VDPA stack? > > > > > kexec and its various corner cases and how this patch set addresses > > them is the part where I'm most lost. > > Sorry for that. I will post Youtube videos to explain kexec in detail, > please follow our Youtube channel if you are interested. (I don't > want to post a link here in case people think I am promoting my > own interest, please email me privately.) > > > > > If I look at one of multikernel distros (I don't know any other > > tbh) that I know it's really VT-d and that type of hardware > > enforcement that make Qubes shine: > > > > https://www.qubes-os.org/ > > > > That said, I did not look how/if this is using CPU virtualization > > features as part of the solution, so correct me if I'm wrong. > > Qubes OS is based on Xen: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubes_OS > > > > > I'm not entirely sure whether this is aimed to be alternative to > > namespaces/cgroups or vms but more in the direction of Solaris Zones > > would be imho better alternative at least for containers because > > it saves the overhead of an extra kernel. There's also a patch set > > for this: > > > > https://lwn.net/Articles/780364/?ref=3Dalian.info > > Solaris Zones also share a single kernel. Or maybe I guess > you meant Kernel Zones? Isn't it a justification for our multikernel > approach for Linux? :-) Solaris kernel zones use sun4v hypervisor to protect isolation. There is no such thing on x86 and arm. Pasha