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Sat, 9 Mar 2024 02:46:01 +0000 Received: from [192.168.12.128] (10.106.101.5) by EX19D003UWC002.ant.amazon.com (10.13.138.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.1258.28; Sat, 9 Mar 2024 02:45:59 +0000 Message-ID: <8e3c2b45-356d-4ca9-bebc-012505235142@amazon.com> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2024 19:45:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Unmapping KVM Guest Memory from Host Kernel Content-Language: en-US To: David Matlack , Brendan Jackman CC: "Gowans, James" , "seanjc@google.com" , "akpm@linux-foundation.org" , "Roy, Patrick" , "chao.p.peng@linux.intel.com" , "rppt@kernel.org" , "pbonzini@redhat.com" , "Woodhouse, David" , "Kalyazin, Nikita" , "lstoakes@gmail.com" , "Liam.Howlett@oracle.com" , "linux-mm@kvack.org" , "qemu-devel@nongnu.org" , "kirill.shutemov@linux.intel.com" , "vbabka@suse.cz" , "mst@redhat.com" , "somlo@cmu.edu" , "Graf (AWS), Alexander" , "kvm@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-coco@lists.linux.dev" , , , , References: From: "Manwaring, Derek" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [10.106.101.5] X-ClientProxiedBy: EX19D042UWA003.ant.amazon.com (10.13.139.44) To EX19D003UWC002.ant.amazon.com (10.13.138.169) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4AAC21C0003 X-Rspam-User: X-Stat-Signature: 45whiwmui6d5tgfqxzcyt347fi7gmjkw X-Rspamd-Server: rspam01 X-HE-Tag: 1709952365-379103 X-HE-Meta: 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 bFfsxE7I QIGoZcIBK6RlrS2gp0YvDGZ4JxzKfqXZyBDtcU8h7PiFUfUYnz98/MG7fyGWre6VCQ0r2PL8WoUeXWKWmo7TVUy9BUh8aivYp3t4kJwpOUEMJT4o5SE03sqJPHu6hWx+PUYR7XpDjt8aOk+ETwYtbF5PBJ2TTWifJ9FRFdZokr56rp/TkIvHElI/NNHgUDpPvrtOcMSJL9asXE9rIHnfPB6C9M0TkEnYzPPEsML2Xlx73EMCRxvVjJ4x4GXISdrcp/hQ484WFsEgGrfivIjVTg6D43669iAZWxR7XDH0ooWsjMx7p2Al/X5CddHi+CK6kp8xsC7XIXOjjpP8= X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000015, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 2024-03-08 10:36-0700, David Matlack wrote: > On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 8:25 AM Brendan Jackman wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 at 16:50, Gowans, James wrote: > > > Our goal is to more completely address the class of issues whose leak > > > origin is categorized as "Mapped memory" [1]. > > > > Did you forget a link below? I'm interested in hearing about that > > categorisation. The paper from Hertogh, et al. is https://download.vusec.net/papers/quarantine_raid23.pdf specifically Table 1. > > It's perhaps a bigger hammer than you are looking for, but the > > solution we're working on at Google is "Address Space Isolation" (ASI) > > - the latest posting about that is [2]. > > I think what James is looking for (and what we are also interested > in), is _eliminating_ the ability to access guest memory from the > direct map entirely. Actually, just preventing speculation of guest memory through the direct map is sufficient for our current focus. Brendan, I will look into the general ASI approach, thank you. Did you consider memfd_secret or a guest_memfd-based approach for Userspace-ASI? Based on Sean's earlier reply to James it sounds like the vision of guest_memfd aligns with ASI's goals. Derek