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From: Alistair Popple <apopple@nvidia.com>
To: Wei Xu <weixugc@google.com>
Cc: Yang Shi <shy828301@gmail.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	Huang Ying <ying.huang@intel.com>,
	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	Linux MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>, Greg Thelen <gthelen@google.com>,
	"Aneesh Kumar K.V" <aneesh.kumar@linux.ibm.com>,
	Jagdish Gediya <jvgediya@linux.ibm.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Davidlohr Bueso <dave@stgolabs.net>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	Baolin Wang <baolin.wang@linux.alibaba.com>,
	Brice Goglin <brice.goglin@gmail.com>,
	Feng Tang <feng.tang@intel.com>,
	Jonathan.Cameron@huawei.com,
	Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: RFC: Memory Tiering Kernel Interfaces
Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 10:01:21 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87tua3h5r1.fsf@nvdebian.thelocal> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAAPL-u-r2Pc_MaHQmKKNH_icAa_fH1COWb5qSPpr8xffREQ_cQ@mail.gmail.com>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 6760 bytes --]

Wei Xu <weixugc@google.com> writes:

[...]

>> >
>> >
>> > Tiering Hierarchy Initialization
>> > `=============================='
>> >
>> > By default, all memory nodes are in the top tier (N_TOPTIER_MEMORY).
>> >
>> > A device driver can remove its memory nodes from the top tier, e.g.
>> > a dax driver can remove PMEM nodes from the top tier.
>>
>> With the topology built by firmware we should not need this.

I agree that in an ideal world the hierarchy should be built by firmware based
on something like the HMAT. But I also think being able to override this will be
useful in getting there. Therefore a way of overriding the generated hierarchy
would be good, either via sysfs or kernel boot parameter if we don't want to
commit to a particular user interface now.

However I'm less sure letting device-drivers override this is a good idea. How
for example would a GPU driver make sure it's node is in the top tier? By moving
every node that the driver does not know about out of N_TOPTIER_MEMORY? That
could get messy if say there were two drivers both of which wanted their node to
be in the top tier.

> I agree. But before we have such a firmware, the kernel needs to do
> its best to initialize memory tiers.
>
> Given that we know PMEM is slower than DRAM, but a dax device might
> not be PMEM, a better place to set the tier for PMEM nodes can be the
> ACPI code, e.g. acpi_numa_memory_affinity_init() where we can examine
> the ACPI_SRAT_MEM_NON_VOLATILE bit.
>
>> >
>> > The kernel builds the memory tiering hierarchy and per-node demotion
>> > order tier-by-tier starting from N_TOPTIER_MEMORY.  For a node N, the
>> > best distance nodes in the next lower tier are assigned to
>> > node_demotion[N].preferred and all the nodes in the next lower tier
>> > are assigned to node_demotion[N].allowed.
>>
>> I'm not sure whether it should be allowed to demote to multiple lower
>> tiers. But it is totally fine to *NOT* allow it at the moment. Once we
>> figure out a good way to define demotion targets, it could be extended
>> to support this easily.
>
> You mean to only support MAX_TIERS=2 for now.  I am fine with that.
> There can be systems with 3 tiers, e.g. GPU -> DRAM -> PMEM, but it is
> not clear yet whether we want to enable transparent memory tiering to
> all the 3 tiers on such systems.

At some point I think we will need to deal with 3 tiers but I'd be ok with
limiting it to 2 for now if it makes things simpler.

- Alistair

>> >
>> > node_demotion[N].preferred can be empty if no preferred demotion node
>> > is available for node N.
>> >
>> > If the userspace overrides the tiers via the memory_tiers sysfs
>> > interface, the kernel then only rebuilds the per-node demotion order
>> > accordingly.
>> >
>> > Memory tiering hierarchy is rebuilt upon hot-add or hot-remove of a
>> > memory node, but is NOT rebuilt upon hot-add or hot-remove of a CPU
>> > node.
>> >
>> >
>> > Memory Allocation for Demotion
>> > `============================'
>> >
>> > When allocating a new demotion target page, both a preferred node
>> > and the allowed nodemask are provided to the allocation function.
>> > The default kernel allocation fallback order is used to allocate the
>> > page from the specified node and nodemask.
>> >
>> > The memopolicy of cpuset, vma and owner task of the source page can
>> > be set to refine the demotion nodemask, e.g. to prevent demotion or
>> > select a particular allowed node as the demotion target.
>> >
>> >
>> > Examples
>> > `======'
>> >
>> > * Example 1:
>> >   Node 0 & 1 are DRAM nodes, node 2 & 3 are PMEM nodes.
>> >
>> >   Node 0 has node 2 as the preferred demotion target and can also
>> >   fallback demotion to node 3.
>> >
>> >   Node 1 has node 3 as the preferred demotion target and can also
>> >   fallback demotion to node 2.
>> >
>> >   Set mempolicy to prevent cross-socket demotion and memory access,
>> >   e.g. cpuset.mems=0,2
>> >
>> > node distances:
>> > node   0    1    2    3
>> >    0  10   20   30   40
>> >    1  20   10   40   30
>> >    2  30   40   10   40
>> >    3  40   30   40   10
>> >
>> > /sys/devices/system/node/memory_tiers
>> > 0-1
>> > 2-3
>> >
>> > N_TOPTIER_MEMORY: 0-1
>> >
>> > node_demotion[]:
>> >   0: [2], [2-3]
>> >   1: [3], [2-3]
>> >   2: [],  []
>> >   3: [],  []
>> >
>> > * Example 2:
>> >   Node 0 & 1 are DRAM nodes.
>> >   Node 2 is a PMEM node and closer to node 0.
>> >
>> >   Node 0 has node 2 as the preferred and only demotion target.
>> >
>> >   Node 1 has no preferred demotion target, but can still demote
>> >   to node 2.
>> >
>> >   Set mempolicy to prevent cross-socket demotion and memory access,
>> >   e.g. cpuset.mems=0,2
>> >
>> > node distances:
>> > node   0    1    2
>> >    0  10   20   30
>> >    1  20   10   40
>> >    2  30   40   10
>> >
>> > /sys/devices/system/node/memory_tiers
>> > 0-1
>> > 2
>> >
>> > N_TOPTIER_MEMORY: 0-1
>> >
>> > node_demotion[]:
>> >   0: [2], [2]
>> >   1: [],  [2]
>> >   2: [],  []
>> >
>> >
>> > * Example 3:
>> >   Node 0 & 1 are DRAM nodes.
>> >   Node 2 is a PMEM node and has the same distance to node 0 & 1.
>> >
>> >   Node 0 has node 2 as the preferred and only demotion target.
>> >
>> >   Node 1 has node 2 as the preferred and only demotion target.
>> >
>> > node distances:
>> > node   0    1    2
>> >    0  10   20   30
>> >    1  20   10   30
>> >    2  30   30   10
>> >
>> > /sys/devices/system/node/memory_tiers
>> > 0-1
>> > 2
>> >
>> > N_TOPTIER_MEMORY: 0-1
>> >
>> > node_demotion[]:
>> >   0: [2], [2]
>> >   1: [2], [2]
>> >   2: [],  []
>> >
>> >
>> > * Example 4:
>> >   Node 0 & 1 are DRAM nodes, Node 2 is a memory-only DRAM node.
>> >
>> >   All nodes are top-tier.
>> >
>> > node distances:
>> > node   0    1    2
>> >    0  10   20   30
>> >    1  20   10   30
>> >    2  30   30   10
>> >
>> > /sys/devices/system/node/memory_tiers
>> > 0-2
>> >
>> > N_TOPTIER_MEMORY: 0-2
>> >
>> > node_demotion[]:
>> >   0: [],  []
>> >   1: [],  []
>> >   2: [],  []
>> >
>> >
>> > * Example 5:
>> >   Node 0 is a DRAM node with CPU.
>> >   Node 1 is a HBM node.
>> >   Node 2 is a PMEM node.
>> >
>> >   With userspace override, node 1 is the top tier and has node 0 as
>> >   the preferred and only demotion target.
>> >
>> >   Node 0 is in the second tier, tier 1, and has node 2 as the
>> >   preferred and only demotion target.
>> >
>> >   Node 2 is in the lowest tier, tier 2, and has no demotion targets.
>> >
>> > node distances:
>> > node   0    1    2
>> >    0  10   21   30
>> >    1  21   10   40
>> >    2  30   40   10
>> >
>> > /sys/devices/system/node/memory_tiers (userspace override)
>> > 1
>> > 0
>> > 2
>> >
>> > N_TOPTIER_MEMORY: 1
>> >
>> > node_demotion[]:
>> >   0: [2], [2]
>> >   1: [0], [0]
>> >   2: [],  []
>> >
>> > -- Wei

  reply	other threads:[~2022-05-06  0:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 57+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-04-30  2:10 Wei Xu
2022-04-30  3:59 ` Yang Shi
2022-04-30  6:37   ` Wei Xu
2022-05-06  0:01     ` Alistair Popple [this message]
2022-05-10  4:32       ` Wei Xu
2022-05-10  5:37         ` Alistair Popple
2022-05-10 11:38           ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2022-05-11  5:30             ` Wei Xu
2022-05-11  7:34               ` Alistair Popple
2022-05-11  7:49               ` ying.huang
2022-05-11 17:07                 ` Wei Xu
2022-05-12  1:42                   ` ying.huang
2022-05-12  2:39                     ` Wei Xu
2022-05-12  3:13                       ` ying.huang
2022-05-12  3:37                         ` Wei Xu
2022-05-12  6:24                         ` Wei Xu
2022-05-06 18:56     ` Yang Shi
2022-05-09 14:32       ` Hesham Almatary
2022-05-10  3:24         ` Yang Shi
2022-05-10  9:59           ` Hesham Almatary
2022-05-10 12:10             ` Aneesh Kumar K V
2022-05-11  5:42               ` Wei Xu
2022-05-11  7:12                 ` Alistair Popple
2022-05-11  9:05                   ` Hesham Almatary
2022-05-12  3:02                     ` ying.huang
2022-05-12  4:40                   ` Aneesh Kumar K V
2022-05-12  4:49                     ` Wei Xu
2022-05-10  4:22         ` Wei Xu
2022-05-10 10:01           ` Hesham Almatary
2022-05-10 11:44           ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2022-05-01 18:35   ` Dan Williams
2022-05-03  6:36     ` Wei Xu
2022-05-06 19:05     ` Yang Shi
2022-05-07  7:56     ` ying.huang
2022-05-01 17:58 ` Davidlohr Bueso
2022-05-02  1:04   ` David Rientjes
2022-05-02  7:23   ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2022-05-03  2:07   ` Baolin Wang
2022-05-03  6:06   ` Wei Xu
2022-05-03 17:14   ` Alistair Popple
2022-05-03 17:47     ` Dave Hansen
2022-05-03 22:35       ` Alistair Popple
2022-05-03 23:54         ` Dave Hansen
2022-05-04  1:31           ` Wei Xu
2022-05-04 17:02             ` Dave Hansen
2022-05-05  6:35               ` Wei Xu
2022-05-05 14:24                 ` Dave Hansen
2022-05-10  4:43                   ` Wei Xu
2022-05-02  6:25 ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2022-05-03  7:02   ` Wei Xu
2022-05-02 15:20 ` Dave Hansen
2022-05-03  7:19   ` Wei Xu
2022-05-03 19:12 ` Tim Chen
2022-05-05  7:02   ` Wei Xu
2022-05-05  8:57 ` ying.huang
2022-05-05 23:57 ` Alistair Popple
2022-05-06  0:25   ` Alistair Popple

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