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Wed, 5 Nov 2025 21:47:31 +0000 Received: from DM4PR10MB8218.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2650:55cf:2816:5f2]) by DM4PR10MB8218.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2650:55cf:2816:5f2%6]) with mapi id 15.20.9275.015; Wed, 5 Nov 2025 21:47:31 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2025 21:47:29 +0000 From: Lorenzo Stoakes To: "David Hildenbrand (Red Hat)" Cc: Gregory Price , Matthew Wilcox , Andrew Morton , Christian Borntraeger , Janosch Frank , Claudio Imbrenda , Alexander Gordeev , Gerald Schaefer , Heiko Carstens , Vasily Gorbik , Sven Schnelle , Peter Xu , Alexander Viro , Christian Brauner , Jan Kara , Arnd Bergmann , Zi Yan , Baolin Wang , "Liam R . Howlett" , Nico Pache , Ryan Roberts , Dev Jain , Barry Song , Lance Yang , Muchun Song , Oscar Salvador , Vlastimil Babka , Mike Rapoport , Suren Baghdasaryan , Michal Hocko , Matthew Brost , Joshua Hahn , Rakie Kim , Byungchul Park , Ying Huang , Alistair Popple , Axel Rasmussen , Yuanchu Xie , Wei Xu , Kemeng Shi , Kairui Song , Nhat Pham , Baoquan He , Chris Li , SeongJae Park , Jason Gunthorpe , Leon Romanovsky , Xu Xin , Chengming Zhou , Jann Horn , Miaohe Lin , Naoya Horiguchi , Pedro Falcato , Pasha Tatashin , Rik van Riel , Harry Yoo , Hugh Dickins , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, damon@lists.linux.dev Subject: Re: [PATCH 02/16] mm: introduce leaf entry type and use to simplify leaf entry logic Message-ID: <82afff0d-8a2d-4f20-8763-85d3cabfc072@lucifer.local> References: <373a0e43-c9bf-4b5b-8d39-4f71684ef883@lucifer.local> 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 o7LJuGs0 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22:24, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2025 at 10:15:51PM +0100, David Hildenbrand (Red Hat) wrote: > > > On 05.11.25 22:08, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2025 at 09:11:45PM +0100, David Hildenbrand (Red Hat) wrote: > > > > > On 05.11.25 21:05, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2025 at 03:01:00PM -0500, Gregory Price wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2025 at 07:52:36PM +0000, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2025 at 02:25:34PM -0500, Gregory Price wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2025 at 07:06:11PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote: > > > > > > > > I thought about doing this but it doesn't really work as the type is > > > > > > > > _abstracted_ from the architecture-specific value, _and_ we use what is > > > > > > > > currently the swp_type field to identify what this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we would lose the architecture-specific information that any 'hardware leaf' > > > > > > > > entry would require and not be able to reliably identify it without losing bits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trying to preserve the value _and_ correctly identify it as a present entry > > > > > > > > would be difficult. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I _really_ didn't want to go on a deep dive through all the architectures to > > > > > > > > see if we could encode it differently to allow for this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather I think it's better to differentiate between s/w + h/w leaf entries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reasonable - names are hard, but just about anything will be better than swp_entry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SWE / sw_entry seems perfectly reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not a lover of 'sw' in there it's just... eye-stabby. Is that a word? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am quite fond of my suggested soft_leaf_t, softleaf_xxx() > > > > > > > > > > We do have soft_dirty. > > > > > > > > > > It will get interesting with pte_swp_soft_dirty() :) > > > > > > > > Hmm but that's literally a swap entry, and is used against an actual PTE entry > > > > not an abstracted s/w leaf entry so I doubt that'd require renaming on any > > > > level. > > > > > > It's used on migration entries as well. Just like pte_swp_uffd_wp(). > > > > > > So, it's ... tricky :) > > > > > > But maybe I am missing your point (my brain is exhausted from uffd code) > > > > We'd either not rename it or rename it to something like pte_is_uffd_wp(). So > > it's not even so relevant. > > We do have pte_uffd_wp() for present ptes. Of course we do :) fun. I mean we can always invert it with pte_is_present_uffd_wp() or something. > > > > > We'd probably call that something like pte_is_soft_dirty() in the soft dirty > > case. The 'swp' part of that is pretty redundant. > > We do have pte_soft_dirty() for present ptes. > > So we'd need some indication that these are for softleaf entries (where the > bit positions will differ). > > > > > If people were insistent on having softleaf in there we could call it > > pte_softleaf_is_soft_dirty() which isn't qutie so bad. But I'd not want to put > > softleaf in there anyway. > > > > sw_entry or sw_leaf or sw_leaf_entry would all have the same weirdness. > > > > I want it to be something that is readable + not hideous to look at but still > > clear as to what it's referring too. Softleaf covers all of that off... :) > > I think you misunderstood me: I have nothing against softleaf, I was rather > saying that we already use the "soft" terminology elsewhere (soft_dirt), so > it's not too crazy. > OK we can fix this mess in a number of ways, and mitigate any weird naming I think. For instance, we could invert and reference hardware in the non-softleaf case, or we could have a function that detects whether present or not, or find a way to not reference softleaf, or just live with pte_is_softleaf_soft_dirty() (really not that bad, given softleaf is one word etc.) Given these are niche cases I don't think it's a big issue. Any reference to software will cause a possible slightly weird sounding name wrt soft-dirty, but it's right to reference software as that's the key difference between these leaf entries and present ones. So yeah I think we're still good to go :) Cheers, Lorenzo