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[2003:d8:2f47:2b00:c5f3:4053:2918:d17c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3b783ca028dsm4899301f8f.51.2025.07.28.02.10.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Jul 2025 02:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <79919ace-9cd2-4600-9615-6dc26ba19e19@redhat.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2025 11:10:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [RFC] Disable auto_movable_ratio for selfhosted memmap To: Michal Hocko Cc: Oscar Salvador , linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Hannes Reinecke References: <2f24e725-cddb-41c5-ba87-783930efb2aa@redhat.com> From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAmgsLPQFCRvGjuMACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1o0bxAAqYC7gTyGj5rZwvy1VesF6YoQncH0yI79lvXUYOX+Nngko4v4dTlOQvrd/vhb 02e9FtpA1CxgwdgIPFKIuXvdSyXAp0xXuIuRPQYbgNriQFkaBlHe9mSf8O09J3SCVa/5ezKM OLW/OONSV/Fr2VI1wxAYj3/Rb+U6rpzqIQ3Uh/5Rjmla6pTl7Z9/o1zKlVOX1SxVGSrlXhqt kwdbjdj/csSzoAbUF/duDuhyEl11/xStm/lBMzVuf3ZhV5SSgLAflLBo4l6mR5RolpPv5wad GpYS/hm7HsmEA0PBAPNb5DvZQ7vNaX23FlgylSXyv72UVsObHsu6pT4sfoxvJ5nJxvzGi69U s1uryvlAfS6E+D5ULrV35taTwSpcBAh0/RqRbV0mTc57vvAoXofBDcs3Z30IReFS34QSpjvl Hxbe7itHGuuhEVM1qmq2U72ezOQ7MzADbwCtn+yGeISQqeFn9QMAZVAkXsc9Wp0SW/WQKb76 FkSRalBZcc2vXM0VqhFVzTb6iNqYXqVKyuPKwhBunhTt6XnIfhpRgqveCPNIasSX05VQR6/a OBHZX3seTikp7A1z9iZIsdtJxB88dGkpeMj6qJ5RLzUsPUVPodEcz1B5aTEbYK6428H8MeLq NFPwmknOlDzQNC6RND8Ez7YEhzqvw7263MojcmmPcLelYbfOwU0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCaCwtJQUJG8aPFAAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWlDnD/4k2TW+HyOOOePVm23F5HOhNNd7nNv3 Vq2cLcW1DteHUdxMO0X+zqrKDHI5hgnE/E2QH9jyV8mB8l/ndElobciaJcbl1cM43vVzPIWn 01vW62oxUNtEvzLLxGLPTrnMxWdZgxr7ACCWKUnMGE2E8eca0cT2pnIJoQRz242xqe/nYxBB /BAK+dsxHIfcQzl88G83oaO7vb7s/cWMYRKOg+WIgp0MJ8DO2IU5JmUtyJB+V3YzzM4cMic3 bNn8nHjTWw/9+QQ5vg3TXHZ5XMu9mtfw2La3bHJ6AybL0DvEkdGxk6YHqJVEukciLMWDWqQQ RtbBhqcprgUxipNvdn9KwNpGciM+hNtM9kf9gt0fjv79l/FiSw6KbCPX9b636GzgNy0Ev2UV m00EtcpRXXMlEpbP4V947ufWVK2Mz7RFUfU4+ETDd1scMQDHzrXItryHLZWhopPI4Z+ps0rB CQHfSpl+wG4XbJJu1D8/Ww3FsO42TMFrNr2/cmqwuUZ0a0uxrpkNYrsGjkEu7a+9MheyTzcm vyU2knz5/stkTN2LKz5REqOe24oRnypjpAfaoxRYXs+F8wml519InWlwCra49IUSxD1hXPxO WBe5lqcozu9LpNDH/brVSzHCSb7vjNGvvSVESDuoiHK8gNlf0v+epy5WYd7CGAgODPvDShGN g3eXuA== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-MFC-PROC-ID: pvu7hEvC1V8ftAPmfrR4xgyz3fS2yMvuWtFbFMN2j1o_1753693847 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2FD2C40004 X-Stat-Signature: r8rpdedthfuoi9weo4gzoe338d3e8bs4 X-Rspam-User: X-Rspamd-Server: rspam11 X-HE-Tag: 1753693851-625366 X-HE-Meta: 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 +enP9qjA 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 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 28.07.25 11:04, Michal Hocko wrote: > On Mon 28-07-25 10:53:08, David Hildenbrand wrote: >> On 28.07.25 10:48, Michal Hocko wrote: >>> On Mon 28-07-25 10:15:47, Oscar Salvador wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Currently, we have several mechanisms to pick a zone for the new memory we are >>>> onlining. >>>> Eventually, we will land on zone_for_pfn_range() which will pick the zone. >>>> >>>> Two of these mechanisms are 'movable_node' and 'auto-movable' policy. >>>> The former will put every single hotpluggled memory in ZONE_MOVABLE >>>> (unless we can keep zones contiguous by not doing so), while the latter >>>> will put it in ZONA_MOVABLE IFF we are within the established ratio >>>> MOVABLE:KERNEL. >>>> >>>> It seems, the later doesn't play well with CXL memory where CXL cards hold really >>>> large amounts of memory, making the ratio fail, and since CXL cards must be removed >>>> as a unit, it can't be done if any memory block fell within >>>> !ZONE_MOVABLE zone. >>> >>> I suspect this is just an example of how our existing memory hotplug >>> interface based on memory blocks is just suoptimal and it doesn't fit >>> new usecases. We should start thinking about how a new v2 api should >>> look like. I am not sure how that should look like but I believe we >>> should be able to express a "device" as whole rather than having a very >>> loosely bound generic memblocks. Anyway this is likely for a longer >>> discussion and a long term plan rather than addressing this particular >>> issue. >> >> We have that concept with memory groups in the kernel already. > > I must have missed that. I will have a look, thanks! Do we have any > documentation for that? Memory group is an overloaded term in the > kernel. It's an internal concept so far, the grouping is not exposed to user space. We have kerneldoc for e.g., "struct memory_group". E.g., from there "A memory group logically groups memory blocks; each memory block belongs to at most one memory group. A memory group corresponds to a memory device, such as a DIMM or a NUMA node, which spans multiple memory blocks and might even span multiple non-contiguous physical memory ranges." > >> In dax/kmem we register a static memory group. It will be considered one >> union. > > But we still do export those memory blocks and let udev or whoever act > on those right? If that is the case then .... Yes. > > [...] > >> daxctl wants to online memory itself. We want to keep that memory offline >> from a kernel perspective and let daxctl handle it in this case. >> >> We have that problem in RHEL where we currently require user space to >> disable udev rules so daxctl "can win". > > ... this is the result. Those shouldn't really race. If udev is suppose > to see the device then only in its entirity so regular memory block > based onlining rules shouldn't even see that memory. Or am I completely > missing the picture? We can't break user space, which relies on individual memory blocks. So udev or $whatever will right now see individual memory blocks. We could export the group id to user space if that is of any help, but at least for daxctl purposes, it will be sufficient to identify "oh, this was added by dax/kmem" (which we can obtain from /proc/iomem) and say "okay, I'll let user-space deal with it." Having the whole thing exposed as a unit is not really solving any problems unless I am missing something important. -- Cheers, David / dhildenb