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X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jul 2025 16:21:19.4636 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8ebda5f2-309b-4252-ee56-08ddb8bb4feb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d;Ip=[4.158.2.129];Helo=[outbound-uk1.az.dlp.m.darktrace.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DU2PEPF00028D04.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB9PR08MB8292 X-Stat-Signature: 6oi9fnedk6y34s4wx7g9n5hdbexrcegb X-Rspamd-Server: rspam08 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 78B1A1C0016 X-Rspam-User: X-HE-Tag: 1751386888-856424 X-HE-Meta: U2FsdGVkX1/kgWW1EL7IcQLRKQeoLHBRAJ1lclI6FlJa2kxgXAoUudXBQKrFhYhXOAz1wai8Gn2RJdO7IUeW5IhnYu1rzn99Py6Ph9P539kMBX43iVzcndEuoO2xCwq8Az9PEhbp32OZpe2uRybAlrk81xI/shmdGkl361fSAG/3VJWEAIoyFhwvKouQHOoaUVNZVMnoKXo8ZdgRYZnNxAuxSJTMA5c/Jo+HPBkrDqG/oDktkHV3v1g7ex6Df8lADTuaCApTDnp32ms/02+dG4Gh978LhIOj690qoEjiC2deLEuaX8e4K2vcpZb6C8UAQluoKufUM4U5xyjU8cAvuuPtn18eLu7MuEdPMa8SEFWxjbverjGGX9htvzwiHZ94JGOPJYgoKtoNovjJHyxHY+8ZtYuWPA40pdSp0oglQ3KCxezs02nJpFjYEpTX+SQm2tbayWdhn+uVTP7KRYwCdOeJuwFZeuYo2tMjc7PV8Sx2zo2XXIh26tIrkEXN0jw6Sd+P+lXsA5Tsgn4eioipi4pT2LYJkixwAjtSnHM2riq8V3NnBbstqG0Vr1Qa2WPPKpEpr91oHbNPMiefP04haF8UNuL+xTQ7wxPehmJvsCaS8Q2yeFH3/5nNtbEXipgz+xAb2l76E+NDc2sBIYReO+skPvcekiwcwEfT4qzMLdD2xoQudrk+/DFXVd9woUEf5FNBXrwUconojKjFLadsHA0BCh9o1M6HQddKY0a6y5zo7qQGCPOCwNfWtZShzJerfunGQT0U++lnhYZIfkPJfeYzsdafJA9fWYTJP5S9Y+46SguvA1fwGrMNb9EgCmkRvjkZ4ll8fl/m78woVLxREk72i9xAaPKq9Igl78xA2gDtH/5XJNjtS/vu1PdR6le00npmSzh91stKTaFwNr9YQ0T8Zm56ZtN7aIpulfdcdnJqWKI+tomJb3h96U8GcCC7GI7TfR0WOE2ZHyh8TF4 1Zd5Tj+k 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 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 01/07/25 6:09 pm, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > On Tue, Jul 01, 2025 at 05:45:51PM +0530, siddhartha@kenip.in wrote: >> 🧩 1. Does the patch cause VMAs to be merged eventually? >> You're correct: VMA merging only happens at mmap() time (via >> __mmap_region()). What the patch affects is the behavior of >> thp_get_unmapped_area_vmflags() before the mmap is placed. > [...] > >> 📐 2. Why aren’t the VMAs mergeable before the patch? >> Great question. Even if the VMA flags are identical, gaps introduced by >> forced alignment from get_unmapped_area() break the precondition for >> merging: > [...] > >> 💡 4. Why this patch complements Rik’s rather than contradicts it: > I'm really perplexed as to why you felt the need to (seemingly via LLM) > reply with the explanation I've already provided here?... > > There's errors in things you say here too. > > With respect, please don't do this. > > (I'm the co-maintainer of pretty much all the relevant code here and wrote > the VMA merge logic you're referring to.) > >> 🤖 3. How does this impact AI workloads like Hugging Face Transformers? >> Tokenization and dynamic batching create non-deterministic memory allocation >> patterns: >> >> Models like BERT and T5 dynamically allocate intermediate buffers per >> token-length, batch size, and attention window. >> >> Hugging Face + ONNX Runtime uses multiple small-ish anonymous mmap()s, often >> 512KB–1.8MB. >> >> These allocations come in bursts — but due to forced alignment, the kernel >> was placing them with artificial gaps, defeating THP eligibility entirely. >> >> By not force-aligning non-PMD-sized mappings, we avoid injecting gaps. The >> result is that: >> >> a. VMAs remain adjacent → mergeable >> >> b. Physical memory is contiguous → eligible for khugepaged collapse >> >> c. THP utilization increases → fewer TLB misses → lower latency → higher >> throughput >> > This is very useful information and it's appreciated! Let's not drown this > out with restatements of stuff already covered. > >> ⚙️ 5. mTHP note >> Although this patch doesn’t target mTHP directly, I believe a similar logic >> tweak could apply there too — especially with shmem-backed workloads (common >> in model servers using shared tensor memory). I’d be happy to help test any >> changes proposed there to derive the consequent results. > Dev - could we hold off on any effort to do something like this until I've > had a chance to refactor THP somewhat? This is already a mess and I'd like > to avoid us piling on more complexity. > > We can revisit this at a later stage. Yes of course. I had run a small benchmark on a quick dumb patch I wrote and I don't see any measurable perf improvement, probably because the highest THP order getting chosen is always PMD size. Out of curiosity, where do you plan to do the refactoring? > >> Thanks again for the detailed discussion. Let me know if you’d like a trace >> or VMA map from a Hugging Face benchmarked run (happy to generate one >> locally). >> > Thanks! Much appreciated. > > Cheers, Lorenzo