From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.1 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFC3C433DF for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 21:46:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071F7207DA for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 21:46:58 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b="XVFERUIe" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 071F7207DA Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) id 69EF98D0002; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 17:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 40) id 650776B0003; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 17:46:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: int-list-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 63042) id 5188C8D0002; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 17:46:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: linux-mm@kvack.org Received: from forelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0213.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.213]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1CC6B0002 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 17:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpin27.hostedemail.com (10.5.19.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.19.251]) by forelay03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A19824556B for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 21:46:57 +0000 (UTC) X-FDA: 77175911316.27.page69_401032b2703c Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (10.5.16.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.16.251]) by smtpin27.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7583D663 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 21:46:53 +0000 (UTC) X-HE-Tag: page69_401032b2703c X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 10551 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com [63.128.21.124]) by imf31.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 21:46:52 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1598046411; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=1WdXRvG4bCNhwZSZkTWr9Rx/+hCL+T87J2kS4FEJuzY=; b=XVFERUIe+IhVZ/QE+Df9HNmFKp6DfBoAUmi3udMvrRRUZUeOUe+uIISjTF0jZCBl41o7TY p8dsEVM7TTS4HQ0s+/KadSMCwQOr85xP4DZ4Oemyc/DwPSNfJwpZMuz6li8STAl3jU5tuB hH6aNMoCt6ML4ZsGBMa7R+dCbfAKZGc= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-172-SAp0EwLqMC6y5pmLPLYV_Q-1; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 17:46:49 -0400 X-MC-Unique: SAp0EwLqMC6y5pmLPLYV_Q-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx07.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34F87801AB9; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 21:46:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.36.112.5] (ovpn-112-5.ams2.redhat.com [10.36.112.5]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE76410013D0; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 21:46:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 00/23] device-dax: Support sub-dividing soft-reserved ranges To: Dan Williams Cc: Andrew Morton , Ira Weiny , Ard Biesheuvel , Mike Rapoport , Borislav Petkov , Vishal Verma , David Airlie , Will Deacon , Catalin Marinas , Ard Biesheuvel , Joao Martins , Tom Lendacky , Dave Jiang , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Jonathan Cameron , Wei Yang , X86 ML , "H. Peter Anvin" , Thomas Gleixner , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Pavel Tatashin , Peter Zijlstra , Ben Skeggs , Benjamin Herrenschmidt , Jason Gunthorpe , Jia He , Ingo Molnar , Dave Hansen , Paul Mackerras , Brice Goglin , Jeff Moyer , Michael Ellerman , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Daniel Vetter , Andy Lutomirski , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Linux MM , linux-nvdimm , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Linux ACPI , Maling list - DRI developers References: <646DDE9B-90C2-493A-958C-90EFA1CCA475@redhat.com> From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABtCREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT6JAlgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl8Ox4kFCRKpKXgACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1oHcA//a6Tj7SBNjFNM1iNhWUo1lxAja0lpSodSnB2g4FCZ4R61SBR4l/psBL73xktp rDHrx4aSpwkRP6Epu6mLvhlfjmkRG4OynJ5HG1gfv7RJJfnUdUM1z5kdS8JBrOhMJS2c/gPf wv1TGRq2XdMPnfY2o0CxRqpcLkx4vBODvJGl2mQyJF/gPepdDfcT8/PY9BJ7FL6Hrq1gnAo4 3Iv9qV0JiT2wmZciNyYQhmA1V6dyTRiQ4YAc31zOo2IM+xisPzeSHgw3ONY/XhYvfZ9r7W1l pNQdc2G+o4Di9NPFHQQhDw3YTRR1opJaTlRDzxYxzU6ZnUUBghxt9cwUWTpfCktkMZiPSDGd KgQBjnweV2jw9UOTxjb4LXqDjmSNkjDdQUOU69jGMUXgihvo4zhYcMX8F5gWdRtMR7DzW/YE BgVcyxNkMIXoY1aYj6npHYiNQesQlqjU6azjbH70/SXKM5tNRplgW8TNprMDuntdvV9wNkFs 9TyM02V5aWxFfI42+aivc4KEw69SE9KXwC7FSf5wXzuTot97N9Phj/Z3+jx443jo2NR34XgF 89cct7wJMjOF7bBefo0fPPZQuIma0Zym71cP61OP/i11ahNye6HGKfxGCOcs5wW9kRQEk8P9 M/k2wt3mt/fCQnuP/mWutNPt95w9wSsUyATLmtNrwccz63W5Ag0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAGJAjwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCXw7HsgUJEqkpoQAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWrrpD/4qS3dyVRxDcDHIlmguXjC1Q5tZTwNB boaBTPHSy/Nksu0eY7x6HfQJ3xajVH32Ms6t1trDQmPx2iP5+7iDsb7OKAb5eOS8h+BEBDeq 3ecsQDv0fFJOA9ag5O3LLNk+3x3q7e0uo06XMaY7UHS341ozXUUI7wC7iKfoUTv03iO9El5f XpNMx/YrIMduZ2+nd9Di7o5+KIwlb2mAB9sTNHdMrXesX8eBL6T9b+MZJk+mZuPxKNVfEQMQ a5SxUEADIPQTPNvBewdeI80yeOCrN+Zzwy/Mrx9EPeu59Y5vSJOx/z6OUImD/GhX7Xvkt3kq Er5KTrJz3++B6SH9pum9PuoE/k+nntJkNMmQpR4MCBaV/J9gIOPGodDKnjdng+mXliF3Ptu6 3oxc2RCyGzTlxyMwuc2U5Q7KtUNTdDe8T0uE+9b8BLMVQDDfJjqY0VVqSUwImzTDLX9S4g/8 kC4HRcclk8hpyhY2jKGluZO0awwTIMgVEzmTyBphDg/Gx7dZU1Xf8HFuE+UZ5UDHDTnwgv7E th6RC9+WrhDNspZ9fJjKWRbveQgUFCpe1sa77LAw+XFrKmBHXp9ZVIe90RMe2tRL06BGiRZr jPrnvUsUUsjRoRNJjKKA/REq+sAnhkNPPZ/NNMjaZ5b8Tovi8C0tmxiCHaQYqj7G2rgnT0kt WNyWQQ== Organization: Red Hat GmbH Message-ID: <6cee1e57-7b7e-f8b6-2c53-f913b18926c0@redhat.com> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 23:46:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <646DDE9B-90C2-493A-958C-90EFA1CCA475@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 10.5.11.22 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5D7583D663 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 100.00] X-Rspamd-Server: rspam04 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: On 21.08.20 23:33, David Hildenbrand wrote: >=20 >=20 >> Am 21.08.2020 um 23:17 schrieb Dan Williams = : >> >> =EF=BB=BFOn Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:30 AM David Hildenbrand wrote: >>> >>>> On 21.08.20 20:27, Dan Williams wrote: >>>> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 3:15 AM David Hildenbrand = wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. On x86-64, e820 indicates "soft-reserved" memory. This memory = is not >>>>>>> automatically used in the buddy during boot, but remains untouche= d >>>>>>> (similar to pmem). But as it involves ACPI as well, it could also= be >>>>>>> used on arm64 (-e820), correct? >>>>>> >>>>>> Correct, arm64 also gets the EFI support for enumerating memory th= is >>>>>> way. However, I would clarify that whether soft-reserved is given = to >>>>>> the buddy allocator by default or not is the kernel's policy choic= e, >>>>>> "buddy-by-default" is ok and is what will happen anyways with olde= r >>>>>> kernels on platforms that enumerate a memory range this way. >>>>> >>>>> Is "soft-reserved" then the right terminology for that? It sounds v= ery >>>>> x86-64/e820 specific. Maybe a compressed for of "performance >>>>> differentiated memory" might be a better fit to expose to user spac= e, no? >>>> >>>> No. The EFI "Specific Purpose" bit is an attribute independent of >>>> e820, it's x86-Linux that entangles those together. There is no >>>> requirement for platform firmware to use that designation even for >>>> drastic performance differentiation between ranges, and conversely >>>> there is no requirement that memory *with* that designation has any >>>> performance difference compared to the default memory pool. So it >>>> really is a reservation policy about a memory range to keep out of t= he >>>> buddy allocator by default. >>> >>> Okay, still "soft-reserved" is x86-64 specific, no? >> >> There's nothing preventing other EFI archs, or a similar designation >> in another firmware spec, picking up this policy. >> >>> (AFAIK, >>> "soft-reserved" will be visible in /proc/iomem, or am I confusing >>> stuff?) >> >> No, you're correct. >> >>> IOW, it "performance differentiated" is not universally >>> applicable, maybe "specific purpose memory" is ? >> >> Those bikeshed colors don't seem an improvement to me. >> >> "Soft-reserved" actually tells you something about the kernel policy >> for the memory. The criticism of "specific purpose" that led to >> calling it "soft-reserved" in Linux is the fact that "specific" is >> undefined as far as the firmware knows, and "specific" may have >> different applications based on the platform user. "Soft-reserved" >> like "Reserved" tells you that a driver policy might be in play for >> that memory. >> >> Also note that the current color of the bikeshed has already shipped s= ince v5.5: >> >> 262b45ae3ab4 x86/efi: EFI soft reservation to E820 enumeration >> >=20 > I was asking because I was struggling to even understand what =E2=80=9E= soft-reserved=E2=80=9C is and I could bet most people have no clue what t= hat is supposed to be. >=20 > In contrast =E2=80=9Epersistent memory=E2=80=9C or =E2=80=9Especial pur= pose memory=E2=80=9C in /proc/iomem is something normal (Linux using) hum= an beings can understand. s/normal/most/ , shouldn't be writing emails from my smartphone. Cheers! --=20 Thanks, David / dhildenb