From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9EC5C27C75 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 10:37:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) id 6EE566B008C; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 06:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 40) id 69DC46B0093; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 06:37:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: int-list-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 63042) id 4F0466B0099; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 06:37:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: linux-mm@kvack.org Received: from relay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0011.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.11]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0366B008C for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 06:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpin01.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay04.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 895341A1972 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 10:37:28 +0000 (UTC) X-FDA: 82225513776.01.F710930 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com [170.10.129.124]) by imf04.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B6D40008 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 10:37:26 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: imf04.hostedemail.com; dkim=pass header.d=redhat.com header.s=mimecast20190719 header.b=Gv5aJwKJ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=redhat.com; spf=pass (imf04.hostedemail.com: domain of david@redhat.com designates 170.10.129.124 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=david@redhat.com ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hostedemail.com; s=arc-20220608; t=1718275045; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=p3orlKu9G5WAiwy9U5KYUWqOEvRBazGCmCZ8DjzU2w4=; b=uRhpL1rTbYgj5WSpBTSc/FH86vkbNcxme7N15d1IJz4KFHvtUbPQkgTocPBO/g5DNcHmFT bHShiP1du9jufHa1uxn5MgD08lFA/XWg1OxljKPPtr2jWShCSA8pUT4x8ZZL8Cgk6dJqve 3kcJC3sh9Fyg7E9Y6wAfMan72aY3bN8= ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-20220608; d=hostedemail.com; t=1718275045; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=x+bj/bbxbOVrrP+iRnKBoU6LRoqGkxvPcR0OTBO+pR9VgZg1HLI0jCrsicZo/49j7mx7hO KCjDe0PqLmg6zXeMCooBRjohtvkCx34XXr5BUic0fMfhFcm1zARFkrzee01FXtGGylQUnc 4zKKctOepy8ddVAOUxIgZfkgFfidwxo= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; imf04.hostedemail.com; dkim=pass header.d=redhat.com header.s=mimecast20190719 header.b=Gv5aJwKJ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=redhat.com; spf=pass (imf04.hostedemail.com: domain of david@redhat.com designates 170.10.129.124 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=david@redhat.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1718275045; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=p3orlKu9G5WAiwy9U5KYUWqOEvRBazGCmCZ8DjzU2w4=; b=Gv5aJwKJvne4Bz+TdVAvQtaV0Dg9TZ9AliK6qzL8TRJ0UySJVN6iOIOft2OxdpocsNuGaa jNFDoThuqDO4yJKnha+VnTumqHjI4TEaX6w2LqMdyousAlZGU2xPcYbXQiSBOXgw4vpSN3 FPQMJG0OMq2HRxPLSrswlWdG9MR9LMc= Received: from mail-wm1-f70.google.com (mail-wm1-f70.google.com [209.85.128.70]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-241-04UhQv-KNNexwEGeCJnYwA-1; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 06:37:24 -0400 X-MC-Unique: 04UhQv-KNNexwEGeCJnYwA-1 Received: by mail-wm1-f70.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-42117a61bccso6844865e9.0 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 03:37:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718275043; x=1718879843; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:organization:autocrypt :content-language:from:references:cc:to:subject:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=p3orlKu9G5WAiwy9U5KYUWqOEvRBazGCmCZ8DjzU2w4=; b=b4UFW3cdVBMK9Za5cbATIAZmAaf//MX27lU5GQellEPr6QiKfShQ/oEQ2uM1SoU28P o3kY6kc7NfTlhg1FQCm1LRyTgPY4fSxUePFSyyuTip7bHM2PvVlXF1OqMZzbYOBCJO8N EBKXFUYSWBkFpO1Sq6x4WM05QBGfT+QX3gg34suiHiUtPIj3wNypsQhix4gPLU4PFQwB Xql2ukjHVH70xvMf0otDMj5j90BiRwoU8m/uNquqtl7/DchT11QdDPQCz9MUh9Z2Txs7 vaoTZ34stkq+sHtQKUWWLEfTSHwcLyScv4QHo2g0OVhbguF3/yqf4I+kQfPONYH5BEF3 TNiA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCX4MJjukeL8C93aAn1S7efMbifB9nmDXf16I/6cv/YJjfutjmqyuZBULREATKu0bUrplR9/hGrhu6+oXacV8pm3rm0= X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzSiOqJl3H5zOW07vl8QBinu88f87jjLubMboanGELv1SbICBuu A8lgrFrEBfoWUE6xIqim7+unJhMt6DGUysfHcJyLZyxVz92pFI9WPgcFIqo57t5vqAmJzOPxom8 dtjLcZTqPT9/0EnbvFCbuC1Ea2lCmPWWSJzpaehT+96dTD/YK X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4e52:b0:421:de31:89 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-422863b6249mr36082925e9.18.1718275043148; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 03:37:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHz4PjZVukIPv1g908el5+hsGnMSj8k4u13d8cQTHjAd7ZE+SQV81th6emTDm/u1t1rVDWHSA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4e52:b0:421:de31:89 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-422863b6249mr36082725e9.18.1718275042740; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 03:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPV6:2003:cb:c703:fe00:10fe:298:6bf1:d163? (p200300cbc703fe0010fe02986bf1d163.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:cb:c703:fe00:10fe:298:6bf1:d163]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-4229c60f758sm42713775e9.20.2024.06.13.03.37.21 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Jun 2024 03:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6ac8ff4d-7099-4547-9e76-528d14f171d8@redhat.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 12:37:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 2/3] mm: do_swap_page: use folio_add_new_anon_rmap() if folio_test_anon(folio)==false To: Barry Song <21cnbao@gmail.com> Cc: akpm@linux-foundation.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, chrisl@kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, mhocko@suse.com, ryan.roberts@arm.com, baolin.wang@linux.alibaba.com, yosryahmed@google.com, shy828301@gmail.com, surenb@google.com, v-songbaohua@oppo.com, willy@infradead.org, ying.huang@intel.com, yuzhao@google.com References: <20240613000721.23093-1-21cnbao@gmail.com> <20240613000721.23093-3-21cnbao@gmail.com> <77da1feb-2257-4545-9427-5729250ceb2b@redhat.com> From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl8Ox4kFCRKpKXgACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1oHcA//a6Tj7SBNjFNM1iNhWUo1lxAja0lpSodSnB2g4FCZ4R61SBR4l/psBL73xktp rDHrx4aSpwkRP6Epu6mLvhlfjmkRG4OynJ5HG1gfv7RJJfnUdUM1z5kdS8JBrOhMJS2c/gPf wv1TGRq2XdMPnfY2o0CxRqpcLkx4vBODvJGl2mQyJF/gPepdDfcT8/PY9BJ7FL6Hrq1gnAo4 3Iv9qV0JiT2wmZciNyYQhmA1V6dyTRiQ4YAc31zOo2IM+xisPzeSHgw3ONY/XhYvfZ9r7W1l pNQdc2G+o4Di9NPFHQQhDw3YTRR1opJaTlRDzxYxzU6ZnUUBghxt9cwUWTpfCktkMZiPSDGd KgQBjnweV2jw9UOTxjb4LXqDjmSNkjDdQUOU69jGMUXgihvo4zhYcMX8F5gWdRtMR7DzW/YE BgVcyxNkMIXoY1aYj6npHYiNQesQlqjU6azjbH70/SXKM5tNRplgW8TNprMDuntdvV9wNkFs 9TyM02V5aWxFfI42+aivc4KEw69SE9KXwC7FSf5wXzuTot97N9Phj/Z3+jx443jo2NR34XgF 89cct7wJMjOF7bBefo0fPPZQuIma0Zym71cP61OP/i11ahNye6HGKfxGCOcs5wW9kRQEk8P9 M/k2wt3mt/fCQnuP/mWutNPt95w9wSsUyATLmtNrwccz63XOwU0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCXw7HsgUJEqkpoQAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWrrpD/4qS3dyVRxDcDHIlmguXjC1Q5tZTwNB boaBTPHSy/Nksu0eY7x6HfQJ3xajVH32Ms6t1trDQmPx2iP5+7iDsb7OKAb5eOS8h+BEBDeq 3ecsQDv0fFJOA9ag5O3LLNk+3x3q7e0uo06XMaY7UHS341ozXUUI7wC7iKfoUTv03iO9El5f XpNMx/YrIMduZ2+nd9Di7o5+KIwlb2mAB9sTNHdMrXesX8eBL6T9b+MZJk+mZuPxKNVfEQMQ a5SxUEADIPQTPNvBewdeI80yeOCrN+Zzwy/Mrx9EPeu59Y5vSJOx/z6OUImD/GhX7Xvkt3kq Er5KTrJz3++B6SH9pum9PuoE/k+nntJkNMmQpR4MCBaV/J9gIOPGodDKnjdng+mXliF3Ptu6 3oxc2RCyGzTlxyMwuc2U5Q7KtUNTdDe8T0uE+9b8BLMVQDDfJjqY0VVqSUwImzTDLX9S4g/8 kC4HRcclk8hpyhY2jKGluZO0awwTIMgVEzmTyBphDg/Gx7dZU1Xf8HFuE+UZ5UDHDTnwgv7E th6RC9+WrhDNspZ9fJjKWRbveQgUFCpe1sa77LAw+XFrKmBHXp9ZVIe90RMe2tRL06BGiRZr jPrnvUsUUsjRoRNJjKKA/REq+sAnhkNPPZ/NNMjaZ5b8Tovi8C0tmxiCHaQYqj7G2rgnT0kt WNyWQQ== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Server: rspam07 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 45B6D40008 X-Stat-Signature: h5986waafc4wbexok8r546wp7o4reuzo X-Rspam-User: X-HE-Tag: 1718275046-16718 X-HE-Meta: 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 60ZUQHVY Pe46e0mVjz/BUC1PQSjsXBwHJB3P11lEM+ADZBh6aJXhrWuzYtcJc2ZtqRPpRIDgAK7n6tHlaD0NJyoeixjBCM/Ax6Q638cWsWZg1OmvSm0IN1lNmkvBtiMNUZ+zu3jbigFDjP/s9uQe/MyWbYrQcoDK6B0dX0q8pwpniUdJy1Rj3SRA+fxSgOy0sbzooop73VmrSXicC7f0TBBQLNAuOBU7lYrp46Zszro7s3yUtgJeg6+bkCUluTy7R306JKMehpPsw/JjxND+W75ITiVBf9HJ6UeqXjY0gZZCZiXwJzpOrRSvUmillRJJq6nC+WomeAQVLrJCxoUnxlwaiQE9LVqAUoq3w/sTWBh0HlJ/XbuSSchC7SC79NVYASE1RSf6AQwMSUvSOtdqRumBDOgTktAA7aMsVAlft1IIvmOwTKQMKq5VhyzDbUocvlCt+kfKUKiW2G4/tfwoU+fAR+Ow28PRv+6uNIuc/SDSKzyF0EpD6la+i/J83G50O0AGeny7fiLeJ61lYKqfABxGGAfiJOIKWDU1tpencd1jbLeTVyeCWDInP3YVnIiy/6nDsSxBFvD6QmgbYG+OnTzGEJ+r2cKdIY0/xCSSVIBQxPbi4cTqbQ9eD2uRNCe+I/dxdToUkZ7L9HT5Xmjx5W3w= X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 13.06.24 11:58, Barry Song wrote: > On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 9:23 PM David Hildenbrand wrote: >> >> On 13.06.24 02:07, Barry Song wrote: >>> From: Barry Song >>> >>> For the !folio_test_anon(folio) case, we can now invoke folio_add_new_anon_rmap() >>> with the rmap flags set to either EXCLUSIVE or non-EXCLUSIVE. This action will >>> suppress the VM_WARN_ON_FOLIO check within __folio_add_anon_rmap() while initiating >>> the process of bringing up mTHP swapin. >>> >>> static __always_inline void __folio_add_anon_rmap(struct folio *folio, >>> struct page *page, int nr_pages, struct vm_area_struct *vma, >>> unsigned long address, rmap_t flags, enum rmap_level level) >>> { >>> ... >>> if (unlikely(!folio_test_anon(folio))) { >>> VM_WARN_ON_FOLIO(folio_test_large(folio) && >>> level != RMAP_LEVEL_PMD, folio); >>> } >>> ... >>> } >>> >>> It also enhances the code’s readability. >>> >>> Suggested-by: David Hildenbrand >>> Signed-off-by: Barry Song >>> --- >>> mm/memory.c | 2 ++ >>> 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+) >>> >>> diff --git a/mm/memory.c b/mm/memory.c >>> index 2f94921091fb..9c962f62f928 100644 >>> --- a/mm/memory.c >>> +++ b/mm/memory.c >>> @@ -4339,6 +4339,8 @@ vm_fault_t do_swap_page(struct vm_fault *vmf) >>> if (unlikely(folio != swapcache && swapcache)) { >>> folio_add_new_anon_rmap(folio, vma, address, RMAP_EXCLUSIVE); >>> folio_add_lru_vma(folio, vma); >>> + } else if (!folio_test_anon(folio)) { >>> + folio_add_new_anon_rmap(folio, vma, address, rmap_flags); >> >> So, with large folio swapin, we would never end up here if any swp PTE >> is !exclusive, because we would make sure to allocate a large folio only >> for suitable regions, correct? >> >> It can certainly happen during swapout + refault with large folios. But >> there, we will always have folio_test_anon() still set and wouldn't run >> into this code path. >> >> (it will all be better with per-folio PAE bit, but that will take some >> more time until I actually get to implement it properly, handling all >> the nasty corner cases) >> >> Better add a comment regarding why we are sure that the complete thing >> is exclusive (e.g., currently only small folios). > > No, patch 1/3 enables both cases to call folio_add_new_anon_rmap(). Currently, > small folios could be non-exclusive. I suppose your question is > whether we should > ensure that all pages within a mTHP have the same exclusivity status, > rather than > always being exclusive? We must never end up calling folio_add_new_anon_rmap(folio, vma, address, RMAP_EXCLUSIVE) if part of the folio is non-exclusive. I think we *may* call folio_add_new_anon_rmap(folio, vma, address, 0) if part of the folio is exclusive [it go swapped out, so there cannot be GUP references]. But, to be future proof (single PAE bit per folio), we better avoid that on swapin if possible. For small folios, it's clear that it cannot be partially exclusive (single page). We better comment why we obey to the above. Like "We currently ensure that new folios cannot be partially exclusive: they are either fully exclusive or fully shared." -- Cheers, David / dhildenb