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(p200300cbc72693001711035665507502.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:cb:c726:9300:1711:356:6550:7502]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m9-20020a7bce09000000b003f049a42689sm24709589wmc.25.2023.04.28.09.00.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Apr 2023 09:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <620882a8-2b93-b709-1093-a323570f0fd2@redhat.com> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 18:00:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 To: Lorenzo Stoakes Cc: linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Morton , Jason Gunthorpe , Jens Axboe , Matthew Wilcox , Dennis Dalessandro , Leon Romanovsky , Christian Benvenuti , Nelson Escobar , Bernard Metzler , Peter Zijlstra , Ingo Molnar , Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo , Mark Rutland , Alexander Shishkin , Jiri Olsa , Namhyung Kim , Ian Rogers , Adrian Hunter , Bjorn Topel , Magnus Karlsson , Maciej Fijalkowski , Jonathan Lemon , "David S . Miller" , Eric Dumazet , Jakub Kicinski , Paolo Abeni , Christian Brauner , Richard Cochran , Alexei Starovoitov , Daniel Borkmann , Jesper Dangaard Brouer , John Fastabend , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-perf-users@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, bpf@vger.kernel.org, Oleg Nesterov , Jason Gunthorpe , John Hubbard , Jan Kara , "Kirill A . Shutemov" , Pavel Begunkov , Mika Penttila , David Howells , Christoph Hellwig References: <6b73e692c2929dc4613af711bdf92e2ec1956a66.1682638385.git.lstoakes@gmail.com> <49ebb100-afd2-4810-b901-1a0f51f45cfc@lucifer.local> From: David Hildenbrand Organization: Red Hat Subject: Re: [PATCH v5] mm/gup: disallow GUP writing to file-backed mappings by default In-Reply-To: X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspam-User: X-Rspamd-Server: rspam02 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7911C14003A X-Stat-Signature: g75aeyb66orxdsiqci58g1pxyp8ag1y5 X-HE-Tag: 1682697632-361672 X-HE-Meta: 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 ykZfHgHO CdE4PBkQia8mEDOSSqO2xlLu9jAWlpR1NbnasNxhl3VqkPyr0hqKoxkrX1Vv+tMmG0DXlc3gofJxVHYK+eiExod4X7njAgufhO8P3DaXT1KVi0gPT0DvZ5zGJaG1Y089dcMAQDJwu+69Xk33odCMshxFVufw56rjATN5s2WHpvN2e7LBfh/ZiCEai9jYkY01f9ZtlFB//YR4O1SiBwJfKTbxg+KSXikqg3qmZcwAY1BCfPKroz86Tr6ZGspz9oFTBGTCX9n4eXBj4bzesxEZQEZAhb2jADrYc/97j/h248YUO5NFKueURjqKvsreqaw4uco6RBvdGsi22fIRVN6KVAxyoKMiflzSSK+QOAMc+31yvbTPzcrI4pMrjvGLDDBwRyZo5gkZrhMjKr0ymqBi3pIobD0T/4EkBn81nNkt4H44FePk+ijfzjSi7Wi7QyILydsXJKD3nG/ugvWo= X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: [...] >>> >>> Personally I come at this from the 'I just want my vmas patch series' unblocked >>> perspective :) and feel there's a functional aspect here too. >> >> I know, it always gets messy when touching such sensible topics :P > > I feel that several people owe me drinks at LSF/MM :P > > To cut a long story short to your other points, I'm _really_ leaning > towards an opt-in variant of this change that we just hand to io_uring to > make everything simple with minimum risk (if Jens was also open to this > idea, it'd simply be deleting the open coded vma checks there and adding > FOLL_SAFE_FILE_WRITE). > > That way we can save the delightful back and forth for another time while > adding a useful feature and documenting the issue. Just for the records: I'm not opposed to disabling it system-wide, especially once this is an actual security issue and can bring down the machine easily (thanks to Jason for raising the security aspect). I just wanted to raise awareness that there might be users affected ... Sure, we could glue this to some system knob like Jason said, if we want to play safe. > > Altneratively I could try to adapt this to also do the GUP-fast check, > hoping that no FOLL_FAST_ONLY users would get nixed (I'd have to check who > uses that). The others should just get degraded to a standard GUP right? Yes. When you need the VMA to make a decision, fallback to standard GUP. The only problematic part is something like get_user_pages_fast_only(), that would observe a change. But KVM never passes FOLL_LONGTERM, so at least in that context the change should be fine I guess. The performance concern is the most problematic thing (how to identify shmem pages). > > I feel these various series have really helped beat out some details about > GUP, so as to your point on another thread (trying to reduce noise here > :P), I think discussion at LSF/MM is also a sensible idea, also you know, > if beers were bought too it could all work out nicely :] The issue is, that GUP is so complicated, that each and every MM developer familiar with GUP has something to add :P What stood out to me is that we disallow something for ordinary GUP but disallow it for GUP-fast, which looks very odd. So sorry again for jumping in late ... -- Thanks, David / dhildenb