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[2003:cb:c70f:2b00:f928:47d8:c9be:9d87]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-42ac5158f14sm18004545e9.16.2024.08.22.02.27.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 22 Aug 2024 02:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <59e90825-4efa-4384-8286-06c0235304dc@redhat.com> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 11:27:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/4] mm: clarify nofail memory allocation To: Michal Hocko Cc: Barry Song <21cnbao@gmail.com>, Linus Torvalds , Yafang Shao , akpm@linux-foundation.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, 42.hyeyoo@gmail.com, cl@linux.com, hailong.liu@oppo.com, hch@infradead.org, iamjoonsoo.kim@lge.com, penberg@kernel.org, rientjes@google.com, roman.gushchin@linux.dev, urezki@gmail.com, v-songbaohua@oppo.com, vbabka@suse.cz, virtualization@lists.linux.dev References: From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl8Ox4kFCRKpKXgACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1oHcA//a6Tj7SBNjFNM1iNhWUo1lxAja0lpSodSnB2g4FCZ4R61SBR4l/psBL73xktp rDHrx4aSpwkRP6Epu6mLvhlfjmkRG4OynJ5HG1gfv7RJJfnUdUM1z5kdS8JBrOhMJS2c/gPf wv1TGRq2XdMPnfY2o0CxRqpcLkx4vBODvJGl2mQyJF/gPepdDfcT8/PY9BJ7FL6Hrq1gnAo4 3Iv9qV0JiT2wmZciNyYQhmA1V6dyTRiQ4YAc31zOo2IM+xisPzeSHgw3ONY/XhYvfZ9r7W1l pNQdc2G+o4Di9NPFHQQhDw3YTRR1opJaTlRDzxYxzU6ZnUUBghxt9cwUWTpfCktkMZiPSDGd KgQBjnweV2jw9UOTxjb4LXqDjmSNkjDdQUOU69jGMUXgihvo4zhYcMX8F5gWdRtMR7DzW/YE BgVcyxNkMIXoY1aYj6npHYiNQesQlqjU6azjbH70/SXKM5tNRplgW8TNprMDuntdvV9wNkFs 9TyM02V5aWxFfI42+aivc4KEw69SE9KXwC7FSf5wXzuTot97N9Phj/Z3+jx443jo2NR34XgF 89cct7wJMjOF7bBefo0fPPZQuIma0Zym71cP61OP/i11ahNye6HGKfxGCOcs5wW9kRQEk8P9 M/k2wt3mt/fCQnuP/mWutNPt95w9wSsUyATLmtNrwccz63XOwU0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCXw7HsgUJEqkpoQAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWrrpD/4qS3dyVRxDcDHIlmguXjC1Q5tZTwNB boaBTPHSy/Nksu0eY7x6HfQJ3xajVH32Ms6t1trDQmPx2iP5+7iDsb7OKAb5eOS8h+BEBDeq 3ecsQDv0fFJOA9ag5O3LLNk+3x3q7e0uo06XMaY7UHS341ozXUUI7wC7iKfoUTv03iO9El5f XpNMx/YrIMduZ2+nd9Di7o5+KIwlb2mAB9sTNHdMrXesX8eBL6T9b+MZJk+mZuPxKNVfEQMQ a5SxUEADIPQTPNvBewdeI80yeOCrN+Zzwy/Mrx9EPeu59Y5vSJOx/z6OUImD/GhX7Xvkt3kq Er5KTrJz3++B6SH9pum9PuoE/k+nntJkNMmQpR4MCBaV/J9gIOPGodDKnjdng+mXliF3Ptu6 3oxc2RCyGzTlxyMwuc2U5Q7KtUNTdDe8T0uE+9b8BLMVQDDfJjqY0VVqSUwImzTDLX9S4g/8 kC4HRcclk8hpyhY2jKGluZO0awwTIMgVEzmTyBphDg/Gx7dZU1Xf8HFuE+UZ5UDHDTnwgv7E th6RC9+WrhDNspZ9fJjKWRbveQgUFCpe1sa77LAw+XFrKmBHXp9ZVIe90RMe2tRL06BGiRZr jPrnvUsUUsjRoRNJjKKA/REq+sAnhkNPPZ/NNMjaZ5b8Tovi8C0tmxiCHaQYqj7G2rgnT0kt WNyWQQ== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Server: rspam06 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 696C020016 X-Stat-Signature: tigedyz4w53i7ugprwtzsm5xju7w78fn X-Rspam-User: X-HE-Tag: 1724318853-727772 X-HE-Meta: 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 007PaWVn JOvmJX2pArCsK9jRnraaREm3/irfxy2Ej4+ljJ2YDX1qWDKWTBLscf7qoPp+npFiAean58Mgd9UuwUSkk8VS+bdhmW6sv9IydHq5L93JHUxKpHTHvlG/312F8nMopgUDrnP5eYMW7qWRazzO/+jNfhTjCt1u6y4QyKNFxvRiAmXE+8MNNIUak1uON0qlK+Sbkl5d6d4u6I0OeG3ZIQgRiWYVf0Txi/nwsf8afIOJXQ9qNRGdbhA8wqkWpAg3M4J0aMBTYAheDK7B5fD8YoW1XrHEQ25yyx+5RtUxNV1deN8FAmS5eDtRR9jrYrF7tM+M9IdnNQaExWJMdGxlzEMIqt31r/elYTDBoMb/rX/7N3TuW/3FQAet7zK0eMbY+mSVX/JwpqN726I/HvcYF8R/W3jBZzTxtTzqZGoK8FBbJK84LmWvSqQbVkz6D4PcwW2uCoIGq X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 22.08.24 11:11, Michal Hocko wrote: > On Thu 22-08-24 10:39:09, David Hildenbrand wrote: > [...] >> But then the question is: does it really make sense to differentiate >> difference between an NOFAIL allocation under memory pressure of MAX_ORDER >> compared to MAX_ORDER+1 (Linus also touched on that)? It could well take >> minutes/hours/days to satisfy a very large NOFAIL allocation. So callers >> should be prepared to run into effective lockups ... :/ > > As pointed out in other subthread. We shouldn't really pretend we > support NOFAIL for order > 0, or at least anything > A_SMALL_ORDER and > encourage kvmalloc for those users. > > A nofail order 2 allocation can kill most of the userspace on terribly > fragmented system that is kernel allocation heavy. > >> NOFAIL shouldn't exist, or at least not used to that degree. > > Let's put whishful thinking aside. Unless somebody manages to go over > all existing NOFAIL users and fix them then we should better focus on > providing a reasonable clearly documented and enforced semantic. Probably it would be time better spent than trying to find ways to deal with that mess. ;) I think the documentation is mostly there: "The VM implementation _must_ retry infinitely: the caller cannot handle allocation failures. The allocation could block indefinitely but will never return with failure. Testing for failure is pointless." To me, that implies that if you pass in MAX_ORDER+1 the VM will "retry infinitely". if that implies just OOPSing or actually be in a busy loop, I don't care. It could effectively happen with MAX_ORDER as well, as stated. But certainly not BUG_ON. "Using this flag for costly allocations is _highly_ discouraged" should be rephrased to "Using this flag with costly allocations is _highly dangerous_ and will likely result in the allocation never succeeding and this function never making any progress." I do also agree that renaming NOFAIL to make some of that clearer makes sense. Likely, checkpatch should be updated to warn on any new NOFAIL usage.