From: Glauber Costa <glommer@parallels.com>
To: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>
Cc: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>,
Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>, Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.cz>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, cgroups@vger.kernel.org,
kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com, devel@openvz.org,
linux-mm@kvack.org, Suleiman Souhlal <suleiman@google.com>,
Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@gmail.com>,
David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
Greg Thelen <gthelen@google.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 04/13] kmem accounting basic infrastructure
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 12:43:24 +0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <506957AC.5070206@parallels.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20121001005717.GM10383@mtj.dyndns.org>
On 10/01/2012 04:57 AM, Tejun Heo wrote:
> Hello, James.
>
> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:25:52PM +0100, James Bottomley wrote:
>> But you've got to ask yourself who cares about accurate accounting per
>> container of dentry and inode objects? They're not objects that any
>> administrator is used to limiting. What we at parallels care about
>> isn't accurately accounting them, it's that one container can't DoS
>> another by exhausting system resources. That's achieved equally well by
>> first charge slab accounting, so we don't really have an interest in
>> pushing object accounting code for which there's no use case.
>
> Isn't it more because the use cases you have on mind don't share
> dentries/inodes too much? Wildly incorrect accounting definitely
> degrades container isolation and can lead to unexpected behaviors.
>
>> All we need kernel memory accounting and limiting for is DoS prevention.
>> There aren't really any system administrators who care about Kernel
>> Memory accounting (at least until the system goes oom) because there are
>> no absolute knobs for it (all there is are a set of weird and wonderful
>> heuristics, like dirty limit ratio and drop caches). Kernel memory
>
> I think that's because the mechanism currently doesn't exist. If one
> wants to control how memory is distributed across different cgroups,
> it's logical to control kernel memory too. The resource in question
> is the actual memory after all. I think at least google would be
> interested in it, so, no, I don't agree that nobody wants it. If that
> is the case, we're working towards the wrong direction.
>
>> usage has a whole set of regulatory infrastructure for trying to make it
>> transparent to the user.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong: if there were some easy way to get proper memory
>> accounting for free, we'd be happy but, because it has no practical
>> application for any of our customers, there's a limited price we're
>> willing to pay to get it.
>
> Even on purely technical ground, it could be that first-use is the
> right trade off if other more accurate approaches are too difficult
> and most workloads are happy with such approach. I'm still a bit
> weary to base userland interface decisions on that tho.
>
For the record, user memory also suffers a bit from being always
constrained to first-touch accounting. Greg Thelen is working on
alternative solutions to make first-accounting the default in a
configurable environment, as he explained in the kernel summit.
When that happens, kernel memory can take advantage of it for free.
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2012-10-01 8:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 127+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2012-09-18 14:03 [PATCH v3 00/13] kmem controller for memcg Glauber Costa
2012-09-18 14:03 ` [PATCH v3 01/13] memcg: Make it possible to use the stock for more than one page Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 18:48 ` Johannes Weiner
2012-09-18 14:03 ` [PATCH v3 02/13] memcg: Reclaim when more than one page needed Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 19:00 ` Johannes Weiner
2012-09-18 14:04 ` [PATCH v3 03/13] memcg: change defines to an enum Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 19:06 ` Johannes Weiner
2012-10-02 9:10 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-18 14:04 ` [PATCH v3 04/13] kmem accounting basic infrastructure Glauber Costa
2012-09-21 16:34 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-24 8:09 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-26 14:03 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-26 14:33 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-26 16:01 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-26 17:34 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-26 16:36 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-26 17:36 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-26 17:44 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-26 17:53 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-26 18:01 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-26 18:56 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-26 19:34 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-26 19:46 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-26 19:56 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-26 20:02 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-26 20:16 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-26 21:24 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-26 22:10 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-26 22:29 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-26 22:42 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-26 22:54 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-26 23:08 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-26 23:20 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-26 23:33 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-27 12:15 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-27 12:20 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-27 12:40 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-27 12:40 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-27 12:54 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-27 14:28 ` Mel Gorman
2012-09-27 14:49 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-27 14:57 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-27 17:46 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-27 17:56 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-27 18:45 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-30 7:57 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-30 8:02 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-30 8:56 ` James Bottomley
2012-09-30 10:37 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-30 11:25 ` James Bottomley
2012-10-01 0:57 ` Tejun Heo
2012-10-01 8:43 ` Glauber Costa [this message]
2012-10-01 8:46 ` Glauber Costa
2012-10-03 22:59 ` Tejun Heo
2012-10-01 8:36 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-27 12:08 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-27 12:11 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-27 14:33 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-27 14:43 ` Mel Gorman
2012-09-27 14:58 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-27 18:30 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-30 8:23 ` Tejun Heo
2012-10-01 8:45 ` Glauber Costa
2012-10-03 22:54 ` Tejun Heo
2012-10-04 11:55 ` Glauber Costa
2012-10-06 2:19 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-27 15:09 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-30 8:47 ` Tejun Heo
2012-10-01 9:27 ` Michal Hocko
2012-10-03 22:43 ` Tejun Heo
2012-10-05 13:47 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-26 22:11 ` Johannes Weiner
2012-09-26 22:45 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-18 14:04 ` [PATCH v3 05/13] Add a __GFP_KMEMCG flag Glauber Costa
2012-09-18 14:15 ` Rik van Riel
2012-09-18 15:06 ` Christoph Lameter
2012-09-19 7:39 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-19 14:07 ` Christoph Lameter
2012-09-27 13:34 ` Mel Gorman
2012-09-27 13:41 ` Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 19:09 ` Johannes Weiner
2012-09-18 14:04 ` [PATCH v3 06/13] memcg: kmem controller infrastructure Glauber Costa
2012-09-20 16:05 ` JoonSoo Kim
2012-09-21 8:41 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-21 9:14 ` JoonSoo Kim
2012-09-26 15:51 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-27 11:31 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-27 13:44 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-28 11:34 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-30 8:25 ` Tejun Heo
2012-10-01 8:28 ` Glauber Costa
2012-10-03 22:11 ` Tejun Heo
2012-10-01 9:44 ` Michal Hocko
2012-10-01 9:48 ` Michal Hocko
2012-10-01 10:09 ` Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 11:51 ` Michal Hocko
2012-10-01 11:51 ` Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 11:58 ` Michal Hocko
2012-10-01 12:04 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-18 14:04 ` [PATCH v3 07/13] mm: Allocate kernel pages to the right memcg Glauber Costa
2012-09-27 13:50 ` Mel Gorman
2012-09-28 9:43 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-28 13:28 ` Mel Gorman
2012-09-27 13:52 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-18 14:04 ` [PATCH v3 08/13] res_counter: return amount of charges after res_counter_uncharge Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 10:00 ` Michal Hocko
2012-10-01 10:01 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-18 14:04 ` [PATCH v3 09/13] memcg: kmem accounting lifecycle management Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 12:15 ` Michal Hocko
2012-10-01 12:29 ` Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 12:36 ` Michal Hocko
2012-10-01 12:43 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-18 14:04 ` [PATCH v3 10/13] memcg: use static branches when code not in use Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 12:25 ` Michal Hocko
2012-10-01 12:27 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-18 14:04 ` [PATCH v3 11/13] memcg: allow a memcg with kmem charges to be destructed Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 12:30 ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-18 14:04 ` [PATCH v3 12/13] execute the whole memcg freeing in rcu callback Glauber Costa
2012-09-21 17:23 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-24 8:48 ` Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 13:27 ` Michal Hocko
2012-10-04 10:53 ` Glauber Costa
2012-10-04 14:20 ` Glauber Costa
2012-10-05 15:31 ` Johannes Weiner
2012-10-08 9:45 ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-18 14:04 ` [PATCH v3 13/13] protect architectures where THREAD_SIZE >= PAGE_SIZE against fork bombs Glauber Costa
2012-10-01 13:17 ` Michal Hocko
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