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From: Kent Overstreet To: Shuah Khan Cc: Michal Hocko , Dave Chinner , Andrew Morton , Christoph Hellwig , Yafang Shao , jack@suse.cz, Christian Brauner , Alexander Viro , Paul Moore , James Morris , "Serge E. Hallyn" , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-bcachefs@vger.kernel.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "conduct@kernel.org" Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/2 v2] bcachefs: do not use PF_MEMALLOC_NORECLAIM Message-ID: <3hzjgsbq4fjmo4fd3d7gmn6p4uhqw2plqwx3lgzymtlf7vbgzf@ql7ly575idde> References: <22a3da3d-6bca-48c6-a36f-382feb999374@linuxfoundation.org> <71b51954-15ba-4e73-baea-584463d43a5c@linuxfoundation.org> <9efc2edf-c6d6-494d-b1bf-64883298150a@linuxfoundation.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A9D451C0005 X-Stat-Signature: 3ufx1fxyuycksja65wpbo63rf4jmwo8h X-Rspam-User: X-Rspamd-Server: rspam05 X-HE-Tag: 1732144845-754717 X-HE-Meta: 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 4j0fb0T7 McAH7nuUWHiS8JvwRwU1zmFbnhHe62+fa9JTndciZT+9pF+/SWOkf3uStm6QwIG1LA0dFKpt+KleMQ25N29aj9ZL2hPRsJD16K7H3vlUfzIFmb0KDPSSOwXb8L63NfsIkUhfz3gofhjrh8Bq938hrISAz47qDecFh9KKiNHMbI6FNNgNGUf6Zt+7S7z+lpRDo2apizirayCQRS8ICl5p+B9Ui8zH/S8tT+qh1Y5DEP7JLbVbSoenodnTp38699eciPIpzUz+Ez6vsGw1yWwzObGJWnMhWj2S6+JnxLR9Q6XEcbt10jT3WOHZnFw== X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Lastly, the thing that motivated me to make an issue out of this was several recent complaints, by my funders, that it's gotten increasingly difficult to get work done on the lists lately without showing up at conferences and shmoozing with the right people. I've noticed that as well. That's something we do need to address, and I see a common thread between that and dismissive/authoritarian behaviour, and I think those of us at the highest level (i.e. CoC board members) should be mindful of how we set the tone for everyone else. Yes, we're all Busy Important People (TM), but doing our jobs well requires us to engage well with people. I think that should be prioritized at least as much as "language". It's not just about what words we use to communicate, it's about whether we're able to communicate effectively or at all. Couple's therapists say they can tell in a few minutes if a relationship is worth salvaging or if it's beyond repair - and it comes down to if they come in displaying anger or dismissiventess. Anger can be worked through, dismissiveness means they no longer care. I find the same is true with engineers. When people are pissed off about something, that anger is often pointing to some important issue underneath that, and getting to the bottom of it is going to hava a big payoff. But when teams stop being able to work together - when people start getting silod, afraid to stick their head up - that's really bad. Vannevar Bush said that all he did was get people to talk to each other.