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peterx@redhat.com, wangkefeng.wang@huawei.com, usamaarif642@gmail.com, sunnanyong@huawei.com, vishal.moola@gmail.com, thomas.hellstrom@linux.intel.com, yang@os.amperecomputing.com, aarcange@redhat.com, raquini@redhat.com, anshuman.khandual@arm.com, catalin.marinas@arm.com, tiwai@suse.de, will@kernel.org, dave.hansen@linux.intel.com, jack@suse.cz, cl@gentwo.org, jglisse@google.com, surenb@google.com, zokeefe@google.com, hannes@cmpxchg.org, rientjes@google.com, mhocko@suse.com, rdunlap@infradead.org, hughd@google.com, richard.weiyang@gmail.com, lance.yang@linux.dev, vbabka@suse.cz, rppt@kernel.org, jannh@google.com, pfalcato@suse.de Subject: Re: [PATCH v11 00/15] khugepaged: mTHP support Message-ID: <3ced93f1-cbb9-4847-a572-362c75438291@lucifer.local> References: <155c821d-402c-4627-a723-6f8c88a2f65c@lucifer.local> <2757fb07-78bf-4a39-8c60-8ca8be200994@lucifer.local> <6ec80746-2945-485f-930e-8cc34446f9e3@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline 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Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 01:45:39PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: > > On 15.09.25 13:35, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 01:29:22PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: > > > > On 15.09.25 13:23, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 01:14:32PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: > > > > > > On 15.09.25 13:02, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 12:52:03PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: > > > > > > > > On 15.09.25 12:43, Lorenzo Stoakes wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2025 at 12:22:07PM +0200, David Hildenbrand wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 0 -> ~100% used (~0% none) > > > > > > > > > > 1 -> ~50% used (~50% none) > > > > > > > > > > 2 -> ~25% used (~75% none) > > > > > > > > > > 3 -> ~12.5% used (~87.5% none) > > > > > > > > > > 4 -> ~11.25% used (~88,75% none) > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > 10 -> ~0% used (~100% none) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and shouldn't this be inverted? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 0 eagerness = we eat up all none PTE entries? Isn't that pretty eager? :P > > > > > > > > > 10 eagerness = we aren't eager to eat up none PTE entries at all? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or am I being dumb here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For swappiness it's: 0 -> no swap (conservative) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So intuitively I assumed: 0 -> no pte_none (conservative) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're the native speaker, so you tell me :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me this is about 'eagerness to consume empty PTE entries' so 10 is more > > > > > > > eager, 0 is not eager at all, i.e. inversion of what you suggest :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Just so we are on the same page: it is about "eagerness to collapse", right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't a 0 mean "I am not eager, I will not waste any memory, I am very > > > > > > careful and bail out on any pte_none" vs. 10 meaning "I am very eager, I > > > > > > will collapse no matter what I find in the page table, waste as much memory > > > > > > as I want"? > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, this is my understanding of your scale, or is my understanding also > > > > > inverted? :) > > > > > > > > > > Right now it's: > > > > > > > > > > eagerness max_ptes_none > > > > > > > > > > 0 -> 511 > > > > > ... > > > > > 10 -> 0 > > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > Just so we are on the same page, this is what I had: > > > > > > > > 0 -> ~100% used (~0% none) > > > > > > > > So "0" -> 0 pte_none or 512 used. > > > > > > > > (note the used vs. none) > > > > > > OK right so we're talking about the same thing, I guess? > > > > > > I was confused partly becuase of the scale, becuase weren't people setting > > > this parameter to low values in practice? > > > > > > And now we make it so we have equivalent of: > > > > > > 0 -> 0 > > > 1 -> 256 > > > 2 -> 384 > > > > Ah, there is the problem, that's not what I had in mind. > > > > 0 -> ~100% used (~0% none) > > ... > > 8 -> ~87,5% used (~12.5% none) > > 9 -> ~75% used (~25% none) > > 9 -> ~50% used (~50% none) > > 10 -> ~0% used (~100% none) > > > > Hopefully I didn't mess it up again. > > I think this kind of table is fine for initial implementation of the > knob, but we don't want to document it to userspace like this. > I think we want to be strategically ambiguous on what the knob does > exactly, so kernel could evolve the meaning of the knob over time. > > We don't want to repeat the problem we have with max_ptes_none which too > prescriptive and got additional meaning with introduction of shrinker. > > As kernel evolves, we want ability to adjust the meaning and keep the > knob useful. I mean, having said this exact thing several times in the thread obviously I agree... FWIW... To repeat, I think it should be an abstraction that we entirely control and whose meaning we can vary over time.