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see if I can suggest something sensible. OK this is _even more fiddly_ than I thought. Dev - feel free to do a respin (once David's stuff's landed in mm-new, which I think maybe it has now?), and we can maybe discuss a v6 with everything else in place if this is still problematic. Ryan mentioned an iterator solution, which actually now seems sensible here, if fiddly. Please do try to attack that in v5 to see if something's workable there. Why are computers so complicated...