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(p200300cbc705f700352bd857b95d9072.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:cb:c705:f700:352b:d857:b95d:9072]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-37ee0b93dfesm7173437f8f.66.2024.10.22.12.18.14 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Oct 2024 12:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2eaaff77-ec6e-405a-825a-168fe49c0884@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2024 21:18:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 3/5] mm: madvise: implement lightweight guard page mechanism To: Vlastimil Babka , Lorenzo Stoakes Cc: Andrew Morton , Suren Baghdasaryan , "Liam R . Howlett" , Matthew Wilcox , "Paul E . McKenney" , Jann Horn , linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Muchun Song , Richard Henderson , Ivan Kokshaysky , Matt Turner , Thomas Bogendoerfer , "James E . J . Bottomley" , Helge Deller , Chris Zankel , Max Filippov , Arnd Bergmann , linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org, linux-mips@vger.kernel.org, linux-parisc@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, Shuah Khan , Christian Brauner , linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, Sidhartha Kumar , Jeff Xu , Christoph Hellwig , linux-api@vger.kernel.org, John Hubbard References: <6c282299-506f-45c9-9ddc-9ef4de582394@redhat.com> <9727ada4-0048-499b-a43f-ac0a625bae5d@redhat.com> <73134e10-19eb-4e52-b87f-5fbfd322b575@lucifer.local> <0f7a6b69-5706-4010-ba7a-68a071922c80@redhat.com> From: David Hildenbrand Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl8Ox4kFCRKpKXgACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1oHcA//a6Tj7SBNjFNM1iNhWUo1lxAja0lpSodSnB2g4FCZ4R61SBR4l/psBL73xktp rDHrx4aSpwkRP6Epu6mLvhlfjmkRG4OynJ5HG1gfv7RJJfnUdUM1z5kdS8JBrOhMJS2c/gPf wv1TGRq2XdMPnfY2o0CxRqpcLkx4vBODvJGl2mQyJF/gPepdDfcT8/PY9BJ7FL6Hrq1gnAo4 3Iv9qV0JiT2wmZciNyYQhmA1V6dyTRiQ4YAc31zOo2IM+xisPzeSHgw3ONY/XhYvfZ9r7W1l pNQdc2G+o4Di9NPFHQQhDw3YTRR1opJaTlRDzxYxzU6ZnUUBghxt9cwUWTpfCktkMZiPSDGd KgQBjnweV2jw9UOTxjb4LXqDjmSNkjDdQUOU69jGMUXgihvo4zhYcMX8F5gWdRtMR7DzW/YE BgVcyxNkMIXoY1aYj6npHYiNQesQlqjU6azjbH70/SXKM5tNRplgW8TNprMDuntdvV9wNkFs 9TyM02V5aWxFfI42+aivc4KEw69SE9KXwC7FSf5wXzuTot97N9Phj/Z3+jx443jo2NR34XgF 89cct7wJMjOF7bBefo0fPPZQuIma0Zym71cP61OP/i11ahNye6HGKfxGCOcs5wW9kRQEk8P9 M/k2wt3mt/fCQnuP/mWutNPt95w9wSsUyATLmtNrwccz63XOwU0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCXw7HsgUJEqkpoQAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWrrpD/4qS3dyVRxDcDHIlmguXjC1Q5tZTwNB boaBTPHSy/Nksu0eY7x6HfQJ3xajVH32Ms6t1trDQmPx2iP5+7iDsb7OKAb5eOS8h+BEBDeq 3ecsQDv0fFJOA9ag5O3LLNk+3x3q7e0uo06XMaY7UHS341ozXUUI7wC7iKfoUTv03iO9El5f XpNMx/YrIMduZ2+nd9Di7o5+KIwlb2mAB9sTNHdMrXesX8eBL6T9b+MZJk+mZuPxKNVfEQMQ a5SxUEADIPQTPNvBewdeI80yeOCrN+Zzwy/Mrx9EPeu59Y5vSJOx/z6OUImD/GhX7Xvkt3kq Er5KTrJz3++B6SH9pum9PuoE/k+nntJkNMmQpR4MCBaV/J9gIOPGodDKnjdng+mXliF3Ptu6 3oxc2RCyGzTlxyMwuc2U5Q7KtUNTdDe8T0uE+9b8BLMVQDDfJjqY0VVqSUwImzTDLX9S4g/8 kC4HRcclk8hpyhY2jKGluZO0awwTIMgVEzmTyBphDg/Gx7dZU1Xf8HFuE+UZ5UDHDTnwgv7E th6RC9+WrhDNspZ9fJjKWRbveQgUFCpe1sa77LAw+XFrKmBHXp9ZVIe90RMe2tRL06BGiRZr jPrnvUsUUsjRoRNJjKKA/REq+sAnhkNPPZ/NNMjaZ5b8Tovi8C0tmxiCHaQYqj7G2rgnT0kt WNyWQQ== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspam-User: X-Stat-Signature: pegztnr7oohkbyni3hfxz6r4d46t4688 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2A660160025 X-Rspamd-Server: rspam02 X-HE-Tag: 1729624690-983238 X-HE-Meta: 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 Oh8G7VoS t1oaijLwho0WY0VgjtRX1lkIkk3R6AoYOieauoUNUypkFxFoBsc5y65eF0PLjEkBVMtxStpHYThS8jzg8uC35oejxVQWgq2fkifrw2Lw6uFM1p1ea1Xe5Ry+0P8Mydq8/rgNgugIr1gZ0eBfvIAoNkpP33efrYISHlIWSxo83A8qs4fUVgFdRAilkI5c3S2T7iNdnAL8LRWxU/rvAIWQxbrZevWgNg9fERLWzgD8pKJJqbOqoNkSx6tgAqlDGVYuqTk9GDyzbUtO47OI4kk+l0/Cz5jmU3Prn3F528xZ9r1T/+nLxLEd21phvjKkVZebir6ecz31qG1jUs0JCigpafMuVbQ1lLfLhxCCP1SRESN803RxOh3GoAyOndz8yn+twf+J7hmmzXnCcg8uL1+U3TkvO10728Ym9fNdTniFQ/G8slZXJUpbECWa6k1fzbtTSSEHQ X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 21.10.24 23:35, Vlastimil Babka wrote: > On 10/21/24 23:20, David Hildenbrand wrote: >>> I don't think there's really any value in that. There's just no sensible >>> situation in which a user would care about this I don't think. >> >> Making sure nobody touches an area, and wile doing that somebody already >> touched that area? I guess it could be worked around by >> mprotect(PROT_NONE),madvise(GUARD),mprotect(PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE) ... >> which is not particularly nice :) >> >>> >>> And if you're saying 'hey do MADV_DONTNEED if this fails and keep trying!' >>> then why not just do that in the kernel? >> >> Heh, no! >> >> If user space doesn't expect there to be something, it should *fail*. >> That's likely going to be the majority of use cases for guard pages >> (happy to be told otherwise). No retry. >> >> And if user space expects there to be something it should zap ahead of >> time (which some allocators maybe already do to free up memory after >> free()) to then install the guard. No retry. >> >> There is this case where user space might be unsure. There, it might >> make sense to retry exactly once. > > I've thought so too and the RFC was implemented like this, but Jann came up > with a scenario where a THP can cause the range including our > to-be-installed guard pte to be populated even if the userspace is not > trying to access that exact address, see here: > > https://lore.kernel.org/all/CAG48ez3vqbqyWb4bLdpqSUnhwqGo2OQetecNhEGPdCGDr94nbQ@mail.gmail.com/ Ah, THP, I should have realized that myself. Yes indeed, in some cases we'll have to zap because something was already populated. Not sure how often it will happen in practice, will depend on the use case. For use cases like one "one static guard page every 2MiB", I would assume we install the guard pages early, before expecting any page faults in that area. Likely there are other ones where it might happen more frequently. For uffd that does not apply, because khugepaged backs off with uffd enabled and the only way to resolve a fault is using uffd -- which places exactly what was requested by user space. So, no populated PTEs without actual page faults on the corresponding virtual addresses. -- Cheers, David / dhildenb