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[82.69.66.36]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-4394376118esm48084765e9.40.2025.02.10.14.04.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 10 Feb 2025 14:04:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 22:04:33 +0000 From: David Laight To: Steven Rostedt Cc: Sebastian Andrzej Siewior , Joel Fernandes , Prakash Sangappa , Peter Zijlstra , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-trace-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Thomas Gleixner , Ankur Arora , Linus Torvalds , linux-mm@kvack.org, x86@kernel.org, Andrew Morton , luto@kernel.org, bp@alien8.de, dave.hansen@linux.intel.com, hpa@zytor.com, juri.lelli@redhat.com, vincent.guittot@linaro.org, willy@infradead.org, mgorman@suse.de, jon.grimm@amd.com, bharata@amd.com, raghavendra.kt@amd.com, Boris Ostrovsky , Konrad Wilk , jgross@suse.com, Andrew.Cooper3@citrix.com, Vineeth Pillai , Suleiman Souhlal , Ingo Molnar , Mathieu Desnoyers , Clark Williams , daniel.wagner@suse.com, Joseph Salisbury , broonie@gmail.com Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH 1/2] sched: Extended scheduler time slice Message-ID: <20250210220433.24f6c6c7@pumpkin> In-Reply-To: <20250210144321.1f5974a6@gandalf.local.home> References: <9DA1FAE6-A008-4785-BDF9-541457E29807@joelfernandes.org> <20250204220418.35949317@gandalf.local.home> <20250205081635.397eacb0@gandalf.local.home> <20250206083039.0916ad24@gandalf.local.home> <20250206134408.lD_POjuG@linutronix.de> <20250210144321.1f5974a6@gandalf.local.home> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.1.1 (GTK 3.24.38; arm-unknown-linux-gnueabihf) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspam-User: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6B5F24000B X-Rspamd-Server: rspam07 X-Stat-Signature: 5knd8dmcwyezi3g6a6q36dpwrj33mqf6 X-HE-Tag: 1739225076-419669 X-HE-Meta: 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 E42FSmCN 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 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 14:43:21 -0500 Steven Rostedt wrote: > On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 14:44:08 +0100 > Sebastian Andrzej Siewior wrote: > > > I did add a scheduling point in rt_spin_unlock() if LAZY was set and > > based on few tests it was something between noise and worse. It seems > > that "run to completion" is better than interrupt the kernel in the > > middle whatever it is doing. "Don't preempt the lock owner" is already > > handled by LAZY with the scheduling point on return to userland. > > Does that mean that PREEMPT_RT requires a non preempt method for > SCHED_OTHER for SCHED_OTHER to not hit the issues that we were originally > hitting? That is, with being able to preempt spin_locks in PREEMPT_RT, > running a system with PREEMPT_RT in full preemption mode will still suffer > performance issues against a non PREEMPT_RT running in full preemption mode? My 'gut feel' is that all the context switches with PREEMPT_RT add a significant overhead. It might not matter if your system is lightly loaded (overspecified), but if you need to run at 95%+ cpu then they will hit you hard. Maybe you can afford to drop softint and napi code to a high(ish) priority thread, but I'd have thought that most interrupts should stay that way and most spinlocks stay as spinlocks - and probably all disable interrupts! Any interrupts that take 'a long time' or spinlocks that are held for 'a long time' really need changing anyway. But there are some really dreadful bits of code in the kernel. One of the Intel ethernet drivers spins for ages whenever the bios is accessing the hardware - you can't run RTP audio tests on that system. Perhaps interrupt disable and pre-emption times should (optionally) be monitored and a warning output every time they go up significantly. A 'name and shame' policy might improve matters. David > > -- Steve >