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selinux@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [apparmor] [PATCH v2 08/92] fs: new helper: simple_rename_timestamp Message-ID: <20230706210236.GB3244704@millbarge> References: <20230705185812.579118-1-jlayton@kernel.org> <20230705185812.579118-3-jlayton@kernel.org> <3b403ef1-22e6-0220-6c9c-435e3444b4d3@kernel.org> <7c783969641b67d6ffdfb10e509f382d083c5291.camel@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="E39vaYmALEf/7YXx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7c783969641b67d6ffdfb10e509f382d083c5291.camel@kernel.org> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DD6A5C001A X-Rspam-User: X-Stat-Signature: w6o6e1qwx5d96hhmk9qs3o4994kzwswt X-Rspamd-Server: rspam01 X-HE-Tag: 1688677375-615947 X-HE-Meta: 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 qo6tJr4C 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 3ps9kdEq 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 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.103176, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: --E39vaYmALEf/7YXx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 05, 2023 at 08:04:41PM -0400, Jeff Layton wrote: >=20 > I don't believe it's an issue. I've seen nothing in the POSIX spec that > mandates that timestamp updates to different inodes involved in an > operation be set to the _same_ value. It just says they must be updated. >=20 > It's also hard to believe that any software would depend on this either, > given that it's very inconsistent across filesystems today. AFAICT, this > was mostly done in the past just as a matter of convenience. I've seen this assumption in several programs: mutt buffy.c https://sources.debian.org/src/mutt/2.2.9-1/buffy.c/?hl=3D625#L625 if (mailbox->newly_created && (sb->st_ctime !=3D sb->st_mtime || sb->st_ctime !=3D sb->st_atime)) mailbox->newly_created =3D 0; neomutt mbox/mbox.c https://sources.debian.org/src/neomutt/20220429+dfsg1-4.1/mbox/mbox.c/?hl= =3D1820#L1820 if (m->newly_created && ((st.st_ctime !=3D st.st_mtime) || (st.st_ctime != =3D st.st_atime))) m->newly_created =3D false; screen logfile.c https://sources.debian.org/src/screen/4.9.0-4/logfile.c/?hl=3D130#L130 if ((!s->st_dev && !s->st_ino) || /* stat failed, that's new!= */ !s->st_nlink || /* red alert: file unlinked= */ (s->st_size < o.st_size) || /* file truncated= */ (s->st_mtime !=3D o.st_mtime) || /* file modifi= ed */ ((s->st_ctime !=3D o.st_ctime) && /* file changed (move= d) */ !(s->st_mtime =3D=3D s->st_ctime && /* and it was not a ch= ange */ o.st_ctime < s->st_ctime))) /* due to delayed nfs write= */ { nemo libnemo-private/nemo-vfs-file.c https://sources.debian.org/src/nemo/5.6.5-1/libnemo-private/nemo-vfs-file.c= /?hl=3D344#L344 /* mtime is when the contents changed; ctime is when the * contents or the permissions (inc. owner/group) changed. * So we can only know when the permissions changed if mtime * and ctime are different. */ if (file->details->mtime =3D=3D file->details->ctime) { return FALSE; } While looking for more examples, I found a perl test that seems to suggest that at least Solaris, AFS, AmigaOS, DragonFly BSD do as you suggest: https://sources.debian.org/src/perl/5.36.0-7/t/op/stat.t/?hl=3D158#L140 Thanks --E39vaYmALEf/7YXx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAABCgAdFiEEQVAQ8bojyMcg37H18yFyWZ2NLpcFAmSnK+gACgkQ8yFyWZ2N Lpd3gQf6AtE8sBL09BSTvT1P5I8tCXnJ4U7VbzQxWTcKAQHRpyZn8IRSdWuxiPEU soaBmSx6jov+kkZYX5uP1LSM1INMYpJTJELGas9A7wenNppBGS07LjwAL40wouPm UfcVWQqOgM8eoseMKBKePv5TkTJFn/M3cPK9Wy31E+qF1IPMNtxz9JKz109YlDOO FxVTwBGGxxKvx3SsUl6hdaqBCK3omZlbWCzqSyqBzzvjgZ01VC5ktw5FuuTABbu8 TScNnT5GtO5AE8RV0T3TKISm19xD69JHQt/etFeU2yKwiBsn89pY4Xut3CrxbSQm prQ7ssP3/fi41WxFFDQzO/oQok/b+A== =/KNl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --E39vaYmALEf/7YXx--