Re: your mail

[Joonsoo Kim <js1304@gmail.com>]

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 09:53:12AM +0200, Michal Hocko wrote:
> On Mon 24-04-17 10:44:43, Joonsoo Kim wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 09:16:16AM +0200, Michal Hocko wrote:
> > > On Fri 21-04-17 13:38:28, Joonsoo Kim wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 09:28:20AM +0200, Michal Hocko wrote:
> > > > > On Thu 20-04-17 10:27:55, Joonsoo Kim wrote:
> > > > > > On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:15:15AM +0200, Michal Hocko wrote:
> > > > > [...]
> > > > > > > Which pfn walkers you have in mind?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > For example, kpagecount_read() in fs/proc/page.c. I searched it by
> > > > > > using pfn_valid().
> > > > > 
> > > > > Yeah, I've checked that one and in fact this is a good example of the
> > > > > case where you do not really care about holes. It just checks the page
> > > > > count which is a valid information under any circumstances.
> > > > 
> > > > I don't think so. First, it checks the page *map* count. Is it still valid
> > > > even if PageReserved() is set?
> > > 
> > > I do not know about any user which would manipulate page map count for
> > > referenced pages. The core MM code doesn't.
> > 
> > That's weird that we can get *map* count without PageReserved() check,
> > but we cannot get zone information.
> > Zone information is more static information than map count.
> 
> As I've already pointed out the rework of the hotplug code is mainly
> about postponing the zone initialization from the physical hot add to
> the logical onlining. The zone is really not clear until that moment.
>  
> > It should be defined/documented in this time that what information in
> > the struct page is valid even if PageReserved() is set. And then, we
> > need to fix all the things based on this design decision.
> 
> Where would you suggest documenting this? We do have
> Documentation/memory-hotplug.txt but it is not really specific about
> struct page.

pfn_valid() in include/linux/mmzone.h looks proper place.

> 
> [...]
> 
> > > You are trying to change a semantic of something that has a well defined
> > > meaning. I disagree that we should change it. It might sound like a
> > > simpler thing to do because pfn walkers will have to be checked but what
> > > you are proposing is conflating two different things together.
> > 
> > I don't think that *I* try to change the semantic of pfn_valid().
> > It would be original semantic of pfn_valid().
> > 
> > "If pfn_valid() returns true, we can get proper struct page and the
> > zone information,"
> 
> I do not see any guarantee about the zone information anywhere. In fact
> this is not true with the original implementation as I've tried to
> explain already. We do have new pages associated with a zone but that
> association might change during the online phase. So you cannot really
> rely on that information until the page is online. There is no real
> change in that regards after my rework.

I know that what you did doesn't change thing much. What I try to say
is that previous implementation related to pfn_valid() in hotplug is
wrong. Please do not assume that hotplug implementation is correct and
other pfn_valid() users are incorrect. There is no design document so
I'm not sure which one is correct but assumption that pfn_valid() user
can access whole the struct page information makes much sense to me.
So, I hope that please fix hotplug implementation rather than
modifying each pfn_valid() users.

> 
> [...]
> > > So please do not conflate those two different concepts together. I
> > > believe that the most prominent pfn walkers should be covered now and
> > > others can be evaluated later.
> > 
> > Even if original pfn_valid()'s semantic is not the one that I mentioned,
> > I think that suggested semantic from me is better.
> > Only hotplug code need to be changed and others doesn't need to be changed.
> > There is no overhead for others. What's the problem about this approach?
> 
> That this would require to check _every_ single pfn_valid user in the
> kernel. That is beyond my time capacity and not really necessary because
> the current code already suffers from the same/similar class of
> problems.

I think that all the pfn_valid() user doesn't consider hole case.
Unlike your expectation, if your way is taken, it requires to check
_every_ pfn_valid() users.

Thanks.

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