From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pa0-f51.google.com (mail-pa0-f51.google.com [209.85.220.51]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0CB82F64 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 20:28:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by padhx2 with SMTP id hx2so27230005pad.1 for ; Tue, 03 Nov 2015 17:28:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.linuxfoundation.org (mail.linuxfoundation.org. [140.211.169.12]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k5si46344982pbq.227.2015.11.03.17.28.36 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Nov 2015 17:28:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 17:31:56 -0800 From: Andrew Morton Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 1/2] mm: mmap: Add new /proc tunable for mmap_base ASLR. Message-Id: <20151103173156.9ca17f52.akpm@linux-foundation.org> In-Reply-To: <87k2pyppfk.fsf@x220.int.ebiederm.org> References: <1446574204-15567-1-git-send-email-dcashman@android.com> <20151103160410.34bbebc805c17d2f41150a19@linux-foundation.org> <87k2pyppfk.fsf@x220.int.ebiederm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org List-ID: To: "Eric W. Biederman" Cc: Daniel Cashman , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux@arm.linux.org.uk, keescook@chromium.org, mingo@kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, corbet@lwn.net, dzickus@redhat.com, xypron.glpk@gmx.de, jpoimboe@redhat.com, kirill.shutemov@linux.intel.com, n-horiguchi@ah.jp.nec.com, aarcange@redhat.com, mgorman@suse.de, tglx@linutronix.de, rientjes@google.com, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, salyzyn@android.com, jeffv@google.com, nnk@google.com, dcashman On Tue, 03 Nov 2015 18:40:31 -0600 ebiederm@xmission.com (Eric W. Biederman) wrote: > Andrew Morton writes: > > > On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 10:10:03 -0800 Daniel Cashman wrote: > > > >> ASLR currently only uses 8 bits to generate the random offset for the > >> mmap base address on 32 bit architectures. This value was chosen to > >> prevent a poorly chosen value from dividing the address space in such > >> a way as to prevent large allocations. This may not be an issue on all > >> platforms. Allow the specification of a minimum number of bits so that > >> platforms desiring greater ASLR protection may determine where to place > >> the trade-off. > > > > Can we please include a very good description of the motivation for this > > change? What is inadequate about the current code, what value does the > > enhancement have to our users, what real-world problems are being solved, > > etc. > > > > Because all we have at present is "greater ASLR protection", which doesn't > > really tell anyone anything. > > The description seemed clear to me. > > More random bits, more entropy, more work needed to brute force. > > 8 bits only requires 256 tries (or a 1 in 256) chance to brute force > something. Of course, but that's not really very useful. > We have seen in the last couple of months on Android how only having 8 bits > doesn't help much. Now THAT is important. What happened here and how well does the proposed fix improve things? How much longer will a brute-force attack take to succeed, with a particular set of kernel parameters? Is the new duration considered to be sufficiently long and if not, are there alternative fixes we should be looking at? Stuff like this. > Each additional bit doubles the protection (and unfortunately also > increases fragmentation of the userspace address space). OK, so the benefit comes with a cost and people who are configuring systems (and the people who are reviewing this patchset!) need to understand the tradeoffs. Please. -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@kvack.org. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ . Don't email: email@kvack.org